SNP

[Claadehol]

Perhaps George the Scottish legal system should be carefully looked at.

 

I see the Top legal man Gordon Jackson, who so successfully managed to achieve Salmond's acquittal is now stepping down ad "Dean of faculty of advocates," the top position in the Scottish legal system.

 

The reason being he is now under investigation for serious malpractice. 

 

This malpractice involved serious breaches of discipline including remarks made on a train journey, which outlined his intention to blacken the names of witnesses. He also seems to think very little of the famous SNP man he is representing, making several deprecatory remarks on his character.

 

Yes George this is the top Scottish legal eagle, and he is already being investigated, but only because he was caught out on video.

 

Yes George maybe all the legal systems should be looked at.

[George.]

^I also think that the Scottish legal system should be examined, and maintained correctly, Claadehol. I also quite understand your comment regarding the dean of the Faculty of Advocates. Yet more proof that nobody is perfect. Cyril Smith proved that quite clearly, I believe.

 

Sorry, but Parliament is full of sex pests

 

Don't think that many of them are in Holyrood, though.

Edited August 29, 2020 by George.

[Wheelsup]

^ another can of worms, haha

[Capeesh]

Some form of autonomy for Shetland is a great goal, I'm all for it.

Becoming a British Overseas Territory, (or colony as they used to be called), run by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with a colonial Governor apointed by a government we can't vote for or get rid off, who sit in a parliament where we would have 0 elected representatives sounds a bit imperial overlord to me. When it's suggested our imperial masters might grant us gifts it reminds me of the native Americans getting ripped off with cheap, mass produced, imitation wampum.

Doesn't sound like anything I would want for Shetland.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Capeesh

[Claadehol]

Now now Capeesh, we're getting a bit carried away here aren't we? Now Faroe has done rather nicely over the years and so has the Isle of Man come to that.

[Capeesh]

Every British Overseas Territory is run like this Claadehol, it's a simple fact. We're not Danish.

[Claadehol]

As the expert on these matters Capeesh, why is the Isle of Man doing so nicely?

[Capeesh]

I don't need to be an expert to know all British Colonies have an appointed Governor who, at the behest of their Government bosses in London, hold paramount power over them in all matters, this includes the Isle of Man.

It's not an uncovered secret, it's common knowledge.

[whalsa]

I don't need to be an expert to know all British Colonies have an appointed Governor who, at the behest of their Government bosses in London, hold paramount power over them in all matters, this includes the Isle of Man.

It's not an uncovered secret, it's common knowledge.

Your "common knowledge" is in fact, incorrect. Once upon a time, the Isle of Man was run in this manner but now the "Lieutenant Governor" is a ceremonial role and all domestic matters are handled locally. Indeed, the next Lieutenant Governor is due to be appointed by a local panel as opposed to the Crown as has been done previously. The UK government is responsible for defence and international matters. 

 

If you are going to criticise the concept, I think you should do some research into the difference between British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies, as well as the varying constitutions and levels of self governance held by each.

 

Furthermore, those are but two existing constitutional models (with variances across the individual territories). There is no reason why Shetland would have to copy any of them, we could adopt "The Shetland Model" which could be set up in a way that suits both ourselves and the UK.

 

The only factual thing you said is we are not Danish. We are Shetlanders and we have as much right to choose our own future as anyone else does. 

[George.]

^Is the Isle of Man not similar to Jersey in having the status of "Crown Dependency"?

[whalsa]

^Is the Isle of Man not similar to Jersey in having the status of "Crown Dependency"?

Yes. IoM, Jersey and Guernsey are Crown Dependencies. I bet if you asked any of them, none of them would dream of voting to become a local authority and giving up their powers... 

[Capeesh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't need to be an expert to know all British Colonies have an appointed Governor who, at the behest of their Government bosses in London, hold paramount power over them in all matters, this includes the Isle of Man.

It's not an uncovered secret, it's common knowledge.

 

Whalsa -..."Your "common knowledge" is in fact, incorrect. Once upon a time, the Isle of Man was run in this manner"...

 

 

Me- Funnily enough I did a 30 second check on The Isle of Man before I posted the above, I was only 90% sure about Crown dependencies, this quote's from the Isle of Man's own "government" website, it's where I got "paramount power" from... (I highilght "government" because they're only allowed to "govern" what the UK permits them to).

"...The UK Parliament has paramount power to legislate for the Isle of Man on all matters..."

 

Another check revealed this quote from the House of commons library regarding the ability of the Crown dependencies to do anything the UK government disagrees with...

"The Royal Commission on the Constitution concluded that: “in the eyes of the courts (the UK) Parliament has a paramount power to legislate for the Islands in any circumstances.”

 

Whalsa -..."If you are going to criticise the concept, I think you should do some research into the difference between British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies, as well as the varying constitutions and levels of self governance held by each"...

 

 

Me- This quote's from the same source regarding the contrasting positions of British Overseas Territories and Crown dependencies, the one thing they all have in common is they're all answerable to the UK government.

"In contrast with the British Overseas Territories, on which the UK Parliament has unlimited power to legislate, UK primary legislation does not ordinarily apply to the Crown Dependencies. It can, however, be extended to them if UK Government departments consider it necessary"...

 

 

 

Whalsa- ..."The only factual thing you have said is we are not Danish"...

 

Me- No apologies necessary.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Capeesh

[whalsa]

Every British Overseas Territory is run like this Claadehol, it's a simple fact. We're not Danish.

The impression you give is that the UK appointed Governor runs all of the BOTs & Crown Dependencies by decree as would perhaps have been the case in the colonial era. this is simply not true in practice. We are getting bogged down in  semantics here but;

 

"UK legislation rarely extends to the Crown Dependencies and should not be extended without first consulting the Islands’ Authorities and obtaining their consent. In instances where it does extend, it may do so either by virtue of the Act itself or by Order in Council made with their agreement under an enabling provision contained in the Act which provides for it to be extended to the Crown Dependencies. An enabling provision for an Order in Council, known as a “permissive extent clause” (PEC), in a Bill could take the following form: “Her Majesty may by Order in Council provide for any of the provisions of this Act to extend, with or without modifications, to any of the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man”. For an Act to extend otherwise than by an Order in Council is now very unusual. Departments must consult the Crown Dependencies at the earliest opportunity in the event that extension is under consideration and a PEC should not be included in a Bill without the prior agreement of the Islands."

 

So, in very exceptional circumstances the UK Government can impose legislation on the islands, i.e. they are not fully independent, which I don't recall anyone ever claiming anyway. 

 

I would far prefer Shetland to be in a situation where externally drafted legislation applying to us was a very rare exception rather than the norm!

 

For anything short of full independence, Shetland will still have to answer to some higher power to some degree. 

 

Furthermore, as I mentioned previously, Shetland would not necessarily have to be a BOT or a Crown Dependency to remain part of the UK. Much of the work on this concept has already been done. In fact, the Council commissioned a report on this back in 1978. Much has changed since but many of the fundamentals remain the same. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/313042948972?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=313042948972&targetid=938148485256&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9047006&poi=&campaignid=10199630638&mkgroupid=101938330797&rlsatarget=pla-938148485256&abcId=1145987&merchantid=118932102&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8Nmp0bHD6wIVmKztCh03LAHqEAQYAyABEgKFZ_D_BwE

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by whalsa

[Capeesh]

So, in very exceptional circumstances the UK Government can impose legislation on the islands, i.e. they are not fully independent, which I don't recall anyone ever claiming anyway. 

 

 

So no 200 mile economic exclusive zone for Shetland as a British Overseas Territory or Crown dependency then, the UK would never allow it, I'm very glad to get to the bottom of that very misleading "wir" Shetland claim.

[whalsa]

 

So, in very exceptional circumstances the UK Government can impose legislation on the islands, i.e. they are not fully independent, which I don't recall anyone ever claiming anyway. 

 

So no 200 mile economic exclusive zone for Shetland as a British Overseas Territory or Crown dependency then, the UK would never allow it, I'm very glad to get to the bottom of that very misleading "wir" Shetland claim.

 

What? The BOTs control their full EEZs. For example, the Falkland Islands (with less than 3000 citizens) controls an EEZ of 212,693 square miles. A huge % of their GDP comes from selling fishing rights in this zone. 

 

This is based on UNCLOS, Shetland would be no different. I expect an autonomous Shetland would negotiate fisheries access and mineral revenues with the parent country.