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We hear many complaints about tax havens and how many of our well know company's like Amazon,Google ect,ect use them to avoid paying tax. The same tax that the country requires to fund its essential services.

 

As far as I can see it is the benefits of providing this " tax haven" facilities that help keep the likes of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man financially buoyant.

 

Would we really want Shetland to become another place for the multi nationals to dodge paying tax.

 

Just a comment I'm not going to get drawn into politics of this.

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We hear many complaints about tax havens and how many of our well know company's like Amazon,Google ect,ect use them to avoid paying tax. The same tax that the country requires to fund its essential services.

 

As far as I can see it is the benefits of providing this " tax haven" facilities that help keep the likes of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man financially buoyant.

 

Would we really want Shetland to become another place for the multi nationals to dodge paying tax.

 

Just a comment I'm not going to get drawn into politics of this.

 

The key point for me is it is the choice of those territories to provide that service. I don't see Shetlanders wanting that model.

 

Furthermore, we have far more primary industries here and potentially a far biggger EEZ to utilise than the Crown Dependencies.

 

I don't believe Shetland would need to be a tax haven at all.

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"I don't believe Shetland would need to be a tax haven at all."

 

Your faith in human nature is admirable..  :thmbsup

 

I happen to think that one of the key benefits of some kind of autonomy would be a greater share of the revenues drawn from the prospective EEZ that would follow.  That, on it's own, should indicate that a lower tax burden would be placed on the local population.  It follows on that outside interests would then take an interest, and want a share(?) of this via some kind of reduced local Capital Gains or Corporation Tax. 

 

I also happen to think that this approach should be investigated as it would create additional jobs, tax revenue, and employment.  It might even extend to staying the exodus of younger folk looking for meaningful employment outwith the Islands.

 

PS;

I know that you said "need" as opposed to "want" but....

.

Edited by Colin
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"I don't believe Shetland would need to be a tax haven at all."

 

Your faith in human nature is admirable.. :thmbsup

 

I happen to think that one of the key benefits of some kind of autonomy would be a greater share of the revenues drawn from the prospective EEZ that would follow. That, on it's own, should indicate that a lower tax burden would be placed on the local population. It follows on that outside interests would then take an interest, and want a share(?) of this via some kind of reduced local Capital Gains or Corporation Tax.

 

I also happen to think that this approach should be investigated as it would create additional jobs, tax revenue, and employment. It might even extend to staying the exodus of younger folk looking for meaningful employment outwith the Islands.

 

PS;

I know that you said "need" as opposed to "want" but....

.

All options should be investigated. With full fiscal autonomy, Shetland would control taxation yes. My first thoughts on that would be to lower income tax to combat the additional cost of living, fuel poverty etc rather than establish a tax haven.

 

The points is the political and financial levers would exist locally to address the problems we face, develop new and existing industries and prevent decline and depopulation.

 

Without said powers, I truly do fear for Shetlands future.

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I  didn't say that Shetland should set out to become a Tax Haven.  I suggested that one of the consequences of a lower local tax regime would make this almost inevitable in the longer term.

 

If you wish to address the high number of minimum wage jobs, fuel poverty, etc. in the local economy, then the extra money has to come from somewhere.  It's not all "milk and honey"

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I  didn't say that Shetland should set out to become a Tax Haven.  I suggested that one of the consequences of a lower local tax regime would make this almost inevitable in the longer term.

 

If you wish to address the high number of minimum wage jobs, fuel poverty, etc. in the local economy, then the extra money has to come from somewhere.  It's not all "milk and honey"

Agreed. However, you could have lower taxes on folks wages etc without necessarily having to allow the likes of offshore banking. Shetland has abundant natural resources (fishing grounds, aquaculture, oil & gas, renewables, natural beauty etc) as well as well established lucrative industries and the potential to develop new ones (e.g. the space sector). The right domestic policies could safeguard the old industries and build up the new. 

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In the longer term, Oil ad Gas will run out sooner rather than  later, and an equally lucrative substitute would need to be found.

The fishing grounds, that are ours by right, need to be taken back and the local fishing industry needs to be re-invigorated.  This will cost a bit of money.

Natural beauty will be under severe pressure from Wind Farms. 

Tourism is probably one of the larger un-tapped areas that should be developed although the additional costs of visiting and staying on Shetland would need to be addressed.  Subsidies also cost money.

Aquaculture, although it brings significant employment, is now (mostly) foreign owned.

The "space sector" is, literally, just a shot in the dark.  I wish it every success but, I suspect that it will soon expire as other areas are much more suitable for this kind of project.

 

In truth, Shetland has been "robbed" for generations and, imho, it will continue to be "robbed" unless enough local people want to come out of their bubbles and be counted.

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The point of achieving home rule/self governance/autonomy (whatever you want to call it) for Shetland is not about arguing who is worse, Holyrood or Westminster. It is about obtaining the necessary financial and political freedoms to largely manage our own affairs, making the regular circuses and partisan political games at those two Parliaments of much less relevance to us. 

 

We have the resources and the people needed to make Shetland prosperous. All we need is the powers to do it.

 

You need a mandate.  Until such time as you have some policies which can be taken seriously and some credible candidates to implement them you won't get it.  Until then it's a pipe dream.

 

Yes, of course you need a believably workable blueprint, folk capable of implementing it, and a mandate to do so.

 

 

I was just pointing out that 'the powers to do it' is far from 'all we need'.

 

The mandate to achieve this "pipe dream" may not be as far away as some might believe....

A mandate can only be awarded at the ballot box, not from within the council chamber.

 

Shetlanders have been voting for more of the same for the past three generations, you'll need some convincing arguments to make them change. The previous 'Wir shetland' debacle has set you, and Stuart Hill's cause back by perhaps another generation.

 

But, nonetheless good luck to you, I'll be the first to offer congratulations if you can pull it off.

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In the longer term, Oil ad Gas will run out sooner rather than  later, and an equally lucrative substitute would need to be found.

The fishing grounds, that are ours by right, need to be taken back and the local fishing industry needs to be re-invigorated.  This will cost a bit of money.

Natural beauty will be under severe pressure from Wind Farms. 

Tourism is probably one of the larger un-tapped areas that should be developed although the additional costs of visiting and staying on Shetland would need to be addressed.  Subsidies also cost money.

Aquaculture, although it brings significant employment, is now (mostly) foreign owned.

The "space sector" is, literally, just a shot in the dark.  I wish it every success but, I suspect that it will soon expire as other areas are much more suitable for this kind of project.

 

In truth, Shetland has been "robbed" for generations and, imho, it will continue to be "robbed" unless enough local people want to come out of their bubbles and be counted.

O&G - yes, short to medium term. What do you mean though about other areas being more suitable for the space project? Unst was literally identified as the best site in the country. Do you mean nowhere in the UK is well suited, dont think that makes sense?

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The point of achieving home rule/self governance/autonomy (whatever you want to call it) for Shetland is not about arguing who is worse, Holyrood or Westminster. It is about obtaining the necessary financial and political freedoms to largely manage our own affairs, making the regular circuses and partisan political games at those two Parliaments of much less relevance to us. 

 

We have the resources and the people needed to make Shetland prosperous. All we need is the powers to do it.

 

You need a mandate.  Until such time as you have some policies which can be taken seriously and some credible candidates to implement them you won't get it.  Until then it's a pipe dream.

 

Yes, of course you need a believably workable blueprint, folk capable of implementing it, and a mandate to do so.

 

 

I was just pointing out that 'the powers to do it' is far from 'all we need'.

 

The mandate to achieve this "pipe dream" may not be as far away as some might believe....

A mandate can only be awarded at the ballot box, not from within the council chamber.

 

Shetlanders have been voting for more of the same for the past three generations, you'll need some convincing arguments to make them change. The previous 'Wir shetland' debacle has set you, and Stuart Hill's cause back by perhaps another generation.

 

But, nonetheless good luck to you, I'll be the first to offer congratulations if you can pull it off.

 

By mandate, I meant passing the motion will give the SIC a mandate to open talks with central government. A public vote of some form would have to take place at some stage, whether that be via referendum or a scheduled election. 

 

I think much of the arguments in favour are clear and haven't changed. The practicalities and how achievable the concept is needs to be better displayed. We must all think bigger IMO. Self governing island groups are far from unusual, they exist both within this country and as part of others or independently all over the world. 

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"Unst was literally identified as the best site in the country. Do you mean nowhere in the UK is well suited, dont think that makes sense?"

 

To lift any appreciable payload into Earth orbit currently requires that the lauch site be as close to the equator as possible in order to make use of the "slingshot" effect of Earth's rotation.

 

Climate, geographical location, and the cost of reaching Unst with some extremely volatile cargo's may be limiting factors to the projects' long term viability.

 

What were the criteria used to identify Unst as the best(?) site in th UK ?  My guess is that fewer people would be exposed if something went seriously wrong.. :oops:  We have already heard that SUllom Voe complained that they were not notified of the launch that took place a week or so back.  Are they part of the "exposed" area ?

 

Also,I seem to remember reading somewhere that an area of Caithness would also be suitable.  That would put the "best in the country" claim under scrutiny.

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"Unst was literally identified as the best site in the country. Do you mean nowhere in the UK is well suited, dont think that makes sense?"

 

To lift any appreciable payload into Earth orbit currently requires that the lauch site be as close to the equator as possible in order to make use of the "slingshot" effect of Earth's rotation.

 

Climate, geographical location, and the cost of reaching Unst with some extremely volatile cargo's may be limiting factors to the projects' long term viability.

 

What were the criteria used to identify Unst as the best(?) site in th UK ?  My guess is that fewer people would be exposed if something went seriously wrong.. :oops:  We have already heard that SUllom Voe complained that they were not notified of the launch that took place a week or so back.  Are they part of the "exposed" area ?

 

Also,I seem to remember reading somewhere that an area of Caithness would also be suitable.  That would put the "best in the country" claim under scrutiny.

Aware this is now well off topic but anyway;

 

I think you are getting mixed up. The closest to the equator criteria, is for the big, geo-stationary orbit satellites and outer space missions that launch from the likes of French Guyana & Cape Canaveral. 

 

The market Unst is targeting is for smaller satellites into SSO (sun synchronous) and Polar orbits, which from my admittedly limited understanding, can be easier achieved from higher latitudes. 

 

These are not going to be giant rockets using highly toxic fuels, it is basically kerosene. The rockets will all launch north over the sea so will pose no danger to Sullom Voe, or Unst for that matter. Plenty of answers to be found here https://shetlandspacecentre.com/questions-and-answers/

 

The weather will be less of a problem than you suppose. Launches will take a matter of seconds and can presumably be done at any time of day or night.

 

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The fishing grounds, that are ours by right, need to be taken back and the local fishing industry needs to be re-invigorated.

 

I would like to see proof of that.

 

A Goverment report estimated that Brexit could create 5000 new jobs in the fishing sector and bring in an extra £540 million to the economy . https://www.sff.co.uk/fishing-industry-stands-gain-hugely-brexit-report/

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