SNP

[Watter]

If the SNP do achieve Scottish independance will Shetlanders except this or could they decide to leave Scotland and join the rest of the UK . 

[Capeesh]

 

 

So, in very exceptional circumstances the UK Government can impose legislation on the islands, i.e. they are not fully independent, which I don't recall anyone ever claiming anyway.

 

So no 200 mile economic exclusive zone for Shetland as a British Overseas Territory or Crown dependency then, the UK would never allow it, I'm very glad to get to the bottom of that very misleading "wir" Shetland claim.

What? The BOTs control their full EEZs. For example, the Falkland Islands (with less than 3000 citizens) controls an EEZ of 212,693 square miles. A huge % of their GDP comes from selling fishing rights in this zone. 

 

This is based on UNCLOS, Shetland would be no different. I expect an autonomous Shetland would negotiate fisheries access and mineral revenues with the parent country. 

Nope, the UK controls them, EEZ's are for sovereign states, good luck trying to get anything out of them.

[Ghostrider]

 

 

 

So, in very exceptional circumstances the UK Government can impose legislation on the islands, i.e. they are not fully independent, which I don't recall anyone ever claiming anyway.

So no 200 mile economic exclusive zone for Shetland as a British Overseas Territory or Crown dependency then, the UK would never allow it, I'm very glad to get to the bottom of that very misleading "wir" Shetland claim.

What? The BOTs control their full EEZs. For example, the Falkland Islands (with less than 3000 citizens) controls an EEZ of 212,693 square miles. A huge % of their GDP comes from selling fishing rights in this zone. 

 

This is based on UNCLOS, Shetland would be no different. I expect an autonomous Shetland would negotiate fisheries access and mineral revenues with the parent country. 

Nope, the UK controls them, EEZ's are for sovereign states, good luck trying to get anything out of them.

 

What you 'get out of them' is a direct result of how much the UK/Scotland wants whatever it wants we have, how much we want whatever we have, and which side has the best poker/chess players with the balls for bluff and brinkmanship.

 

Nothing is ever cast in tablets of stone, everything is negotiable.

 

At the end of the day our mandate would be full independence in which case the UK would get absolutely nothing of ours whatsoever, that in itself is more than plenty to get their attention.

 

......and there's plenty of other tactics we can throw on the table to make them nervous. All it takes is a bit of thinking outside the box and creatively and add in a liberal dose of bluff.

 

Whatever we let the UK/Scotland have of ours would be a 'trade', and that 'trade' can be made to work our way with nothing more than us being more of a hard nosed SOAB than them.

 

To quote a line from a song, 'everybody else is doing it, so why the hell should I'. - Just because other BOT's, Crown Dependencies etc have settled for whatever they've settled for does not mean we have to as well. Yeah, sure as hell Westminster/Holyrood will try and force that option as the only option, but that where you make sure the lead negotiator you send in is the most stubborn, intransigent SOAB you can dig up and give them the authority to let rip.

 

Anybody who believes we'd have to pick an 'off the shelf' package deal as demonstrated by existing Crown Dependencies, BOT's etc, has been conditioned to follow the rules, not to question the rules, and to not believe the rules can be changed.

 

If we're going to go for increased self determination, we first and foremost need to exercise that will by securing the deal that works for us, not a deal concocted by others, otherwise the whole exercise becomes hypocritical, a mockery and a farce.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Ghostrider

[Claadehol]

Ghostrider! I love it! Extremely articulate message and worth sending out!

[Capeesh]

^^ Or, the more likely outcome...

UK keep ALL revenues and do whatever they choose to do with their own EEZ (like they do now), give a couple of peerages to the "loyal" Shetland leaders, and wampum for the natives, we've come full circle, it's been a hoot but not for me, sorry.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Capeesh

[whalsa]

^^ Or, the more likely outcome...

UK keep ALL revenues and do whatever they choose to do with their own EEZ (like they do now), give a couple of peerages to the "loyal" Shetland leaders, and wampum for the natives, we've come full circle, it's been a hoot but not for me, sorry.

What is YOUR suggestion then? What is abundantly clear is that Shetland is in an unsustainable position which shows no sign of getting any better. Which vital services would you cut or abolish altogether to bring SIC spending down to the paltry amount it gets from central government?

 

What do you suggest we do with our ageing infrastructure? Despite years of pleading and empty promises, Holyrood is yet to commit to funding the revenue let alone the capital for these expensive but essential services. 

 

Given the track record of Holyrood, SNP or previous governments, I have zero confidence that powers or resources would be forthcoming under an independent Scotland either. 

 

Shetlands best chance at survival and prosperity is to negotiate a fairer share of the collossal amount of revenue that flows south annually and to be unshackled from the one size fits all policies dreamt up in Brussels, Westminster and Holyrood by people who more than likely will never set foot in these islands. 

[JGHR]

The point of achieving home rule/self governance/autonomy (whatever you want to call it) for Shetland is not about arguing who is worse, Holyrood or Westminster. It is about obtaining the necessary financial and political freedoms to largely manage our own affairs, making the regular circuses and partisan political games at those two Parliaments of much less relevance to us. 

 

We have the resources and the people needed to make Shetland prosperous. All we need is the powers to do it. 

 

You need a mandate.  Until such time as you have some policies which can be taken seriously and some credible candidates to implement them you won't get it.  Until then it's a pipe dream. 

[Watter]

Has anyone worked out how much the Government gets in taxes from Shetland versus how much they give us  ? i suspect they get more from Shetland than they give back by a substantial amount  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Watter

[Ghostrider]

^^ Or, the more likely outcome...

UK keep ALL revenues and do whatever they choose to do with their own EEZ (like they do now), give a couple of peerages to the "loyal" Shetland leaders, and wampum for the natives, we've come full circle, it's been a hoot but not for me, sorry.

Anybody who has their head turned by that kind of crap deserves not to get everything they won't get.

[whalsa]

Has anyone worked out how much the Government gets in taxes from Shetland versus how much they give us  ? i suspect they get more from Shetland than they give back by a substantial amount  

 

In the 2010 Input/Output study the conclusion was Shetlands net exchequer balance (how much we pay vs how much we get back) was in the black to the tune of roughly £80M if I recall correctly.

 

The SIC is currently awaiting delivery of an updated version of this. 

[Ghostrider]

 

The point of achieving home rule/self governance/autonomy (whatever you want to call it) for Shetland is not about arguing who is worse, Holyrood or Westminster. It is about obtaining the necessary financial and political freedoms to largely manage our own affairs, making the regular circuses and partisan political games at those two Parliaments of much less relevance to us. 

 

We have the resources and the people needed to make Shetland prosperous. All we need is the powers to do it. 

 

You need a mandate.  Until such time as you have some policies which can be taken seriously and some credible candidates to implement them you won't get it.  Until then it's a pipe dream. 

 

Yes, of course you need a believably workable blueprint, folk capable of implementing it, and a mandate to do so.

 

So far only the general idea has been thrown out there, which has garnered a reasonable level of support. Whether enough to be a majority mandate, who knows. It needs working up to the next stage with some sort of meat being put on the bones, addressing how and why it could work and why it would make sense to do, which should hopefully allow a better indication of the level of support and win over more, or not, as the case may be.

 

There's no point in copying the Scots who've only ever promoted their separatism dreams on the basis of romanticism and historic xenophobia, history shows that hasn't turned out so well.

 

Its the hard realities of day to day living and aspirations for the future that matter, and plans for such things don't happen overnight.

[Watter]

 

Has anyone worked out how much the Government gets in taxes from Shetland versus how much they give us  ? i suspect they get more from Shetland than they give back by a substantial amount  

 

In the 2010 Input/Output study the conclusion was Shetlands net exchequer balance (how much we pay vs how much we get back) was in the black to the tune of roughly £80M if I recall correctly.

 

The SIC is currently awaiting delivery of an updated version of this. 

 

So the old argument that an independent Shetland could not survive without a large Goverment subsidie annually has been turned on its head we pay far more in than we get back to the tune of £80 Million pounds each year [probably a lot more now  considering that figure is from 2010 ]. 

[whalsa]

 

 

Has anyone worked out how much the Government gets in taxes from Shetland versus how much they give us  ? i suspect they get more from Shetland than they give back by a substantial amount  

 

In the 2010 Input/Output study the conclusion was Shetlands net exchequer balance (how much we pay vs how much we get back) was in the black to the tune of roughly £80M if I recall correctly.

 

The SIC is currently awaiting delivery of an updated version of this. 

 

So the old argument that an independent Shetland could not survive without a large Goverment subsidie annually has been turned on its head we pay far more in than we get back to the tune of £80 Million pounds each year [probably a lot more now  considering that figure is from 2010 ]. 

 

Correct. That is also excluding any oil and gas revenue. 

 

However, being fully "independent" would come with many other significant costs and difficulties. So much so that I would not see that as a realistic (or perhaps even desirable) first step. The journey to self governance should be a process rather than something that will occur overnight, but we will get nowhere unless we try.

[whalsa]

The mandate to achieve this "pipe dream" may not be as far away as some might believe....

 

 

 

 

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/08/31/councillors-seek-to-explore-options-for-achieving-financial-and-political-self-determination-for-shetland/

 

[Watter]

Shetland has such a powerfull hand to play politically to achieve better things for Shetland yet for some reason the majority of its population are incredibly reluctant to change the status quo . Why is that ? Is it because most people here are doing all right thank you very much and see no reason to change things .