Scottish Independence Referendum 2021

[Ghostrider]

^ The fat lady hasn't sung yet on the 'rona.

An awful lot of folk worldwide have done and said things they may well yet live to regret (or die regretting) before its all over.

New Zealand, and Scotland may yet see 'bodies pile high in their thousands' and there be nothing they can do to stop it.......just like 1918-20.

While BJ's remark and attitude may well be 'ill-considered' given his position, it could also be argued that he is just being a realist and that he is being no more 'irresponsible' than those relying on closed borders to keep the virus out of countries and away from populations, or on so-called 'vaccine', which is not a vaccine at all, but a pre-emptive 'treatment' which may knock the sharpest edges off it for anyone that catches it.

Both of the latter are completely ignoring that should the 'rona mutate in a similar manner to the 1918 flu and return in a far more deadly wave, it was the populations who'd been most heavily affected initially that in the end had the lowest fatality rates, as having had the initial version that give them a level of immunity against the later deadly and untreatable version that populations unscathed initially didn't have. New Zealand is fooked *if* a more deadly later version comes along and gets in........

At least BJ has thrown the idea out there, that bodies piling high and there being nothing anybody can do about it is still a very realistic possibility. Unlike some others who have no other output than 'we got this', which anybody taking even a speed read of the history and basic mechanics of viral infections and pandemics can see is so much bull. Its smoke and mirrors leading folk in to a false sense of security.

I much prefer realism and straight talking, aka. honesty, than sanitised platitudes and implied promises that you know fine well are far and beyond the power of the person or entity making them being able to deliver. Since it got out the 'rona has never been under the control of anyone or anything unless itself, different governments have done what they felt 'best' and its tweaked around its edges from time to time and put us where we are now, whether that's a 'good' place or not, time will tell, and whether those that are being hailed as having acted with sage wisdom in the present will still be so, or be branded fools in the final analysis, and vice versa, again only time will tell.

Wherever it ends, one thing is pretty much certain, which characters and nations history judges as the sages and the fools, will be everything to do with luck, and damn little to do with design, as the damn lot are making judgement calls and acting based on something they don't fully understand or ever could.

[Evil Inky]

1 hour ago, Ghostrider said:

I much prefer realism and straight talking, aka. honesty, than sanitised platitudes and implied promises that you know fine well are far and beyond the power of the person or entity making them being able to deliver.

Johnson has denied making these remarks, so either he made them, and is now lying about not making them, or he didn't make these remarks in the first place. Either way, I can't see how you can praise him for "realism and straight talking".

Edited April 26, 2021 by Evil Inky
typo

[Ghostrider]

^  Well, he would say that, wouldn't he. He's a top layer politician.

Or he forgot he said them. I seriously doubt anybody can remember every remark they made in every conversation they've had recently. Especially politicians, as not talking is something the majority find very difficult to do.

The paper says he did, he says he didn't, who knows who said what. Whoever said it, is not particularly irrelevant and can be fought over and settled whenever, the point is, that it has been said, that is the realism and straight talking part. Its now out there, where it belongs and should have been all along. Over a year of b/s, things being sold as what they're not and flimsy facades of touchy feely rhetoric needed balance, this hasn't even begun to redress the balance and very likely won't last anyway, but it has to start with something somewhere, whoever gets it out there by whatever means

[Evil Inky]

^ If you think that a spat between Boris Johnson, who was sacked from The Times for making up a quote, later sacked from the Shadow Cabinet for lying about an affair, and who won't even confirm how many children he has, and Dominic Cummings, who claimed he took his family on a trip to Barnard Castle in order to test his eyesight, is going to be the source of any "realism and straight-talking", I really don't know what to say. 

[George.]

Yet more reason to justify independence.

SCOTLAND is a wealthy country which can afford to become independent, according to the head of an economic think tank.

But don't tell Westminster, please. After all, they seem to want to do no more than to continue to strip us blind. That's their style.

[Roachmill]

His own brother resigned saying, "In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest”. Make of that what you will... His own sister had a go when Boris blurted out a show stopper about Jo Cox and Brexit, "It is particularly tasteless for those who are grieving a mother, an MP, a friend, to say that the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing which she and her family campaigned against". That's just his own family.

For yet more examples of his straight talking, have a look at this compilation:

And we've done the "all politicians lie" nonsense to death already. I believe it transpired that certain members feel it's OK when they lie about something they agree with but they should be strung up when they don't.

[hakama]

All very interesting but it is irrelevant to to the future as the Chinese who are in pursuit of world domination will be in charge. They already have the commercial market wrapped up as most of what we buy comes from China and when we are on our own we will not have a military force and no nuclear weapons. The Chinese have been very clever over the years with their long term plan.We should stop buying from them and make our own. Tibet next Taiwan then Scotland. Better start learning Mandarin/Cantonese if you are a young person. Too late for me as I will be gone unless you believe in reincarnation then I will be back to face it all. Now where did I put that Chinese dictionary.

[hakama]

If Scotland is a wealthy country in what areas are its wealth.

[Ghostrider]

7 hours ago, Evil Inky said:

^ If you think that a spat between Boris Johnson, who was sacked from The Times for making up a quote, later sacked from the Shadow Cabinet for lying about an affair, and who won't even confirm how many children he has, and Dominic Cummings, who claimed he took his family on a trip to Barnard Castle in order to test his eyesight, is going to be the source of any "realism and straight-talking", I really don't know what to say. 

The nation put BJ in charge knowing full well what he was like, so far he's running to form. Expecting anybody to change their spots just because they've been given a new job title to hang round their next is an unrealistic and forlorn hope.

Parliament is not one person, nor is the government (well, okay, Thatcher did her best to be.....), every one is rattling full of characters and acts that are 'questionable' and 'dubious', this one is no different. Half-truths, lying by omission, dressing things up as what they're not and denials are their stock in trade, get used to it.

You're missing the point, who actually said what, when, where and why is of little relevance, after a year of wishy washy platitude propaganda it needed saying. The only 'problem' I have with this, is that, it having allegedly been said, and attributed to BJ, that he didn't have the balls to own it, regardless whether he actually ever said it or not.

[George.]

^The English nation.

[Capeesh]

Covid’s another example of the need for independence.

As GR rightly points out the biggest risk right now is Covid variants, on this the scientists agree.

So what do we do about it? How do we prevent or control potentially vaccine busting variants entering the country?

Do we...

a)Make all international arrivals quarantine for 14 days. Recommended by scientists.

or

b) Have an ineffective Red list of countries where international arrivals only have to quarantine if they’re coming from a listed country, as an example of how useless the list is, India was only added to it 5 days ago.

Quick quiz...

Which UK based government chose a)?

Holyrood or Westminster?

and another...

Which UK based government chose b)?

Holyrood or Westminster?

I’ll give a clue, The leader who chose b) doesn’t care if the bodies of his fellow citizens “Pile high in their thousands”. 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Capeesh

[hakama]

I notice that none of the experts out there have posted anything to tell me why Scotland is a rich country. The main things that I see are oil which will run out fishing, other countries take it and tourism, not much of that at the moment so come on enlighten me.

[Wheelsup]

I’m no fan of BJ and his pals, but I can’t help but wonder if their bullish behaviour on acquiring early vaccines has not been a godsend. I also wonder if an independent Scotland would have had the a)resources b) the will to go against EU advice.

As GR said the fat lady is still to sing.

 

I’m no fan of Scottish Independence either, but I have no doubt that Scotland has the potential to run itself financially, given Good governance.

Scotland has(assuming Shetland stays in it)

A huge fishing and fish farming industry, which properly managed will be sustainable.

A very valuable whisky industry.

World leading financial and legal services.

Vast potential in renewable energy, Hydro alone supplies much of England.

Land for successful farming and forestry 

Tourism, Oil, still probably 100 years worth and will always be required for lubrication and plastics if not burning.

theres a start

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Wheelsup

[George.]

22 minutes ago, Wheelsup said:

I’m no fan of BJ and his pals, but I can’t help but wonder if their bullish behaviour on acquiring early vaccines has not been a godsend.

 

Oh, I think that you're right. Boris is no more than a necessity. That's possibly why he got an almost immediate check-up in hospital, because he's no more than a............

Boris Johnson called gay men 'tank-topped bumboys' and black people 'piccaninnies' with 'watermelon smiles'

Stand proud of Boris.

[Roachmill]

1 hour ago, hakama said:

I notice that none of the experts out there have posted anything to tell me why Scotland is a rich country. The main things that I see are oil which will run out fishing, other countries take it and tourism, not much of that at the moment so come on enlighten me.

That may have something to do with being branded as delusional and / or not sure about China taking over Scotland within a generation.

Wheels Up has made a valiant and balanced attempt. Unlike them I'm for independence and, in my delusion, I'm entirely worried about the towering deficit Scotland would have to dig itself out of. It'll be a massive stick with which to beat down any yes voters with - and rightly so. With that said I'll still vote to... ahem... take back control as I firmly believe we, as a nation, have the ability to govern ourselves and eventually prosper (and not just financially) from that right.