Scottish Independence Referendum 2021

[Capeesh]

14 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

SNP MP's especially have re-written the definition of an 'opposition MP'. the purpose of an opposition MP or party is to attempt to negotiate with the Government to try and win some of modification or concession that benefits the portion of the electorate they represent.

We voted for Alistair Carmichael MP who was a cabinet minister of the LibDem/Tory coalition UK government.

The only things I remember him achieving for Shetland was austerity, foodbanks and flogging the Post Office for buttons.

If a member of the government in power can’t do better than this how do you think opposition MP’s who are facing a government with an 80 seat majority are going to manage?

Edited May 5, 2021 by Capeesh

[Colin]

10 minutes ago, Capeesh said:

We voted for Alistair Carmichael MP who was a cabinet minister of the LibDem/Tory coalition UK government.

The only things I remember him achieving for Shetland was austerity, foodbanks and flogging the Post Office for buttons.

If a member of the government in power can’t do better than this how do you think opposition MP’s who are facing a government with an 80 seat majority are going to manage?

Exactly...  They might as well stay at home and save us a bit on the expenses..

[George.]

23 minutes ago, Capeesh said:

We voted for Alistair Carmichael MP who was a cabinet minister of the LibDem/Tory coalition UK government.

And never forget that in 2015 Carmichael stated that he was leaving politics and would not be back. Something about having other things to do......

[Capeesh]

4 hours ago, Colin said:

Exactly...  They might as well stay at home and save us a bit on the expenses..

I agree, our representatives are wasting their breath there, instead of being ignored, ridiculed and treated with contempt they should come home and help Scotland run its own affairs as an independent country.

Brexit Britain’s going backwards.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Capeesh

[Capeesh]

4 hours ago, Urabug said:

Let us all remember that without the help of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and many other country's besides the North Sea oil would probably still be lying under the North Sea.

If the expertise required to recover the oil had been left to Scotland I doubt if we would have succeeded so well, but thanks to the efforts and technical abilities of many countries 

Britain gained from the North Sea oil as did many others.

This is just one example where it is better to work together as one.

How many different nationalities were involved in building Sullom Voe.

The way the financial gains from oil were squandered is another story and many of our own councillors of the time should surely hang their heads in shame. 

This is a time when sticking together as one nation and trying to be as "equal" as possible is so important to us all.

There’s a small country who found oil at the same time and have extracted around the same amount of oil as us a few hundred miles away.

Norway now has a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund, the UK spent the lot.

[Urabug]

1 hour ago, Capeesh said:

There’s a small country who found oil at the same time and have extracted around the same amount of oil as us a few hundred miles away.

Norway now has a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund, the UK spent the lot.

Now was that Scotland's fault or was it entirely England.

I could tell a few tales of our own councils extravagance  and the way they "threw away money" but certainly not on here.

 

[George.]

26 minutes ago, Urabug said:

Now was that Scotland's fault or was it entirely England.

It may well have been Wales. 

Or Northern Ireland.

[Ghostrider]

5 hours ago, Capeesh said:

If a member of the government in power can’t do better than this how do you think opposition MP’s who are facing a government with an 80 seat majority are going to manage?

By forming alliances with other members of the opposition on issues that can be agreed on, and working on garnering public opinion support via the media.

Successful politics, especially party politics is only achieved by playing the long game. You need to prove to the majority of the public while you are in opposition that you have the better ideas than whoever they chose to form a Government last time around. Then they might just vote for you next time.

Relegating themselves to sniping at everything the current Government says or does, sometimes in contradiction with their own published policies and/or to the determent of their own supporters, ends up with voters having nothing to judge the potential worth of opposition parties/candidates on unless for a list of fantasy pre-election 'promises' which most people expect them to all have already forgotten by the time the ballot closes.

[Capeesh]

The sums don’t add up to form alliances with other parties at Westminster and make any kind of difference.

The Tories have a working majority of 85 seats, that means if every single opposition MP miraculously agreed on something it would still get outvoted by 85 votes.

You’re  saying the best thing to do then is hope you get elected to government by coming up with ideas that are appealing to voters, the SNP did that, they won almost every seat they stood in but they’ll never become the government in Westminster simply because they don’t stand candidates in England, Wales or Northern Ireland for obvious reasons.

Even when that’s not the case the same problem exists. I’m old enough to remember when Scotland was almost exclusively  Labour red, what happened? Thatcher and Tory governments from 1979-1997, again just basic maths, Scotland only has 59 out of 650 seats. The only way Scotland can get the government it votes for is if England and Wales agree. (Northern Ireland have their own parties).

Edited May 5, 2021 by Capeesh

[Wheelsup]

This current election , just like the last one in 2016, has come to be all about independence.  It is sidelining the important issues, such as Scotland's slipping education standards.

Really the sooner we put independence to bed, one way or another, the better. Then perhaps we could elect a  competent government.

At least, with covid, there shouldn't be a flag-waving, chanting mob at my local poll station this time.

There has been no daily visits from the campaigners, which has been wonderful.

[Roachmill]

2 hours ago, Wheelsup said:

This current election , just like the last one in 2016, has come to be all about independence.  It is sidelining the important issues, such as Scotland's slipping education standards.

Really the sooner we put independence to bed, one way or another, the better. Then perhaps we could elect a  competent government.

At least, with covid, there shouldn't be a flag-waving, chanting mob at my local poll station this time.

There has been no daily visits from the campaigners, which has been wonderful.

Indeed, socially distanced harassment doesn't quite work as well! A small bonus.

While I think you and I may be voting differently it has been refreshing to see someone not in favour of independence (I think) not name calling, claiming being shouted down when trolling or asking questions only to ignore some perfectly reasonable answers - all acts which only further cement opinions for *insert tongue in cheek* FRRREEEEEEEDOOOOMMM!!!!

The independence thing does need put to bed one way or the other. Personally I don't see Scotland being such a rattle of poop that it's unable to pull itself through tough times and come out bigger and, better and in charge of itself. I'd like to see it's political spectrum devoid of the SNP, being able to vote for parties and policies and actually get what the majority decided with no hands tied (yes, I know some powers are devolved ATM!) by who England voted for.

However, I suspect the way the Conservatives seemingly wanting to hang on to us so badly means there's money to be made. They'll fire up their media machine to spread fear (e.g. their pension lies from last time around did them immense favours by terrifying the older demographic) and we'll end up staying put.

[Urabug]

How many £millions does Holyrood cost us annually, and I often wonder if we really need them .

I can think of very little  I'm getting from Holyrood that I  would not get from Westminster . Friends in England who appear to be quite happy.

In fact I'm managing just fine and I do not for one minute give that credit to the SNP.

Guess Holyrood is just a place to create a few well paid jobs at our ,the tax payers expense.

A bit like £800 rolls of wall paper a bit OTT.

But society seems to think we require it !!!

If The English had a vote would the majority vote for Scotland to remain !

[Roachmill]

12 minutes ago, Urabug said:

How many £millions does Holyrood cost us annually, and I often wonder if we really need them .

I can think of very little  I'm getting from Holyrood that I  would not get from Westminster . Friends in England who appear to be quite happy.

In fact I'm managing just fine and I do not for one minute give that credit to the SNP.

Guess Holyrood is just a place to create a few well paid jobs at our ,the tax payers expense.

A bit like £800 rolls of wall paper a bit OTT.

But society seems to think we require it !!!

If The English had a vote would the majority vote for Scotland to remain !

I see Holyrood as giving us some [but not enough] isolation from dubious policies emitted from Westminster e.g. the epic levels of cronyism and billions going to mates pockets in private contracts for this, that and the other only for things to go chesticles-up. The SG is not perfect in getting everything right but the overall impression I get is one of trying to do the right thing by the country rather than themselves.

Are any of your happy English friends in the medical / care professions? Are they happy about the Boris Boat, Boris Jet, the inability to give them more than a 1% pay rise or even the Boris Camo Couch? Come to think about it... Boris and Trump have more in common than casual racism, extreme narcissistic disorders and problems with basic language skills; they both have gawd-awful taste in decor.

[Urabug]

Cronyism is not unique to England it exists all over, even on our own shores and few can be happy with the health service just now due to the massive delays and turmoil caused mainly by this pandemic. 

Freedom to chose who we like and dislike surely is something we are proud of in the western world, not being forced to accept anything we do not agree with surely is a blessing.

But that is changing IMHO of course.

Plenty of folk who have also worked extremely hard, and at risk ,throughout all this and are getting "{'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'}" all, not that I grudge the NHS a pay rise. 

[George.]

1 hour ago, Urabug said:

How many £millions does Holyrood cost us annually, and I often wonder if we really need them .

I believe that it's about a tenth of what Westminster costs us therefore, in my opinion, we certainly do not need Westminster.