Scottish Independence Referendum 2021

[blue beetle]

1.24m people voted for the SNP out of a population of 5.51m at the general election. Does not look like a mandate for anything  to me.  The whole thing has far more to do with Nicola's ego and the hope that people will vote yes because they don't like Boris. She knows as well as anyone that he will be gone soon and that window will be forever closed. 

[Capeesh]

Not how parliamentary democracy works. The obvious flaw is we can't expect babies to vote. Mandatory voting isn't required in this country either but even when we exclude children and change it to voting aged population the Tories formed a government with an 80 seat majority and they had a smaller percentage of the vote, nobody says they have no mandate to govern. 

[Ghostrider]

On 03/07/2022 at 18:41, Capeesh said:

The mandate to deliver a second referendum is ironclad. The parties who put it forward in their manifesto's have been democratically elected and have achieved a majority in the Scottish parliament to deliver it.

Hardly ironclad, maybe barely brown wrapping paper clad at best. You're assuming that the electorate deemed Scottish Independence and holding another referendum for it was something they deemed important enough that it was a deal breaker when deciding whom they gave their vote to. There's an equal chance that the electorate didn't give a stuff one way of the other for Independence and a referendum and voted the way they did for other reasons entirely, and the outcome of who got elected would have been no different if independence and a referendum hadn't been in anyone's manifesto.

The same mandate to hold a referendum existed last time they had one, and the outcome didn't exactly go the way those who wanted one hoped or predicted. We shall see, come 2023, *if* the threatened referendum actually materialises, a week is a long time in politics let alone 15+ months.......

Things have moved on a bit for sure, no argument there, however I'd say public opinion now has far less stomach for independence than at the last referendum, but who knows. This close to the last one though, is always going to attract accusations of 'Keep on voting until you vote the *right* way'.

If Nikki is relying on 'Boris hate' to give her extra oomph, she'd best also keep a wadder ee on the more obvious too. The Nats are a one trick pony party, were it not for independence they have nothing in their policies to distinguish or elevate the fro any other Socialist outfit, and keeping on chasing independence while making no progress towards it has only a limited shelf life, which is running short now. she needs to win a referendum, and relatively soon, or she and her party are history.

So, suppose she has her referendum, and wins this time. What then? Unless Westminster recognises and accepts the result, which they may or may not do, nothing changes. She could declare UDI, or go whinging to the UN, neither of which is going to have any odds in her lifetime, or she could station her military along her border......Ahhh.....that's maybe not that easy for her.

[Roachmill]

The SNP becoming irrelevant in the advent of independence is a bit of a given, surely? A reason to vote yes, no?

[Capeesh]

I see our Tory government is having a complete meltdown today, loads of ministers resigning, lying, corruption, the country is going down the toilet. Rampant inflation, food banks, people having to decide whether to eat or heat and the guy that's meant to fix it all ( the Chancellor of the Exchequer) has just quit along with the Health Secretary, and loads of others, complete shambles..... 

Surely we could make a better fist of things than this, couldn't we????? 

[Roachmill]

We could be 8 years clear of the same mess.... yet here we are. That's 8 years of struggling we'll still need to go through from a worse starting position. It's still, even now, a better bet than sticking with where we'll be in another 8 years IMHO.

[Ghostrider]

It would seem that Nicola's 'Boris hate' ace up her sleeve may well have turned in to a ratty looking Joker overnight. Imagine that.

Hey ho, I'm sure there will be many more scenes of shambles and the rise and fall of many characters in both Westminster and Holyrood before Oct '23. Who'd care to put money on even the SNP still mattering come then......

 

[Capeesh]

Boris is the 15th unionist party leader she's seen come and go, if I was a betting man looking at that form I know who my money would be on but she's only one woman and Boris is only one man, in a democracy it's the multitudes that matter. 

One thing's for sure, Scottish independence doesn't seem to be going away as has been proven, beyond doubt, in every election since 2011. It's the message the electorate is sending that matters not the leaders, they come and go with the breeze. 

[Capeesh]

Meanwhile on Normal Island we have a PM who has just resigned as party leader but will remain PM until September!!! The moron can't even resign properly! 

No wonder a large chunk of the Scottish electorate want out, the UK won't have a functioning government for months at a time when the problems facing the average Joe in the street are as bad as they've been for 40+ years. 

[Ghostrider]

2 hours ago, Capeesh said:

One thing's for sure, Scottish independence doesn't seem to be going away as has been proven, beyond doubt, in every election since 2011.

It may not be going to go away, but is it going anyplace either. The last twice, the Nats, the main and loudest proponents for Indie have only been able to legitimately claim an overall majority by selling out and getting in bed with the Greens. Hardly a resounding endorsement of their flagship policy.

Dissention for the union/indie has always existed as long as the union has been in existence, just not enough to force it's dissolution, and that doesn't seem to be growing of declining with time. The only change has been a bunch of wannabe central belt socialist who've hijacked it as a potential easy ride to personal glory and blaring about it from a bullhorn these last two or three decades.

[Capeesh]

Great, if it's in the bag for the union somebody needs to tell those in Westminster that there's nothing to worry about and let democracy take its course. 

[MuckleJoannie]

7 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

It may not be going to go away, but is it going anyplace either. The last twice, the Nats, the main and loudest proponents for Indie have only been able to legitimately claim an overall majority by selling out and getting in bed with the Greens. Hardly a resounding endorsement of their flagship policy.

 

The Scottish electoral system is designed so that it is extremely difficult for any one party to get a majority. And the Greens also have a policy of Scottish independence.

[Rasmie]

And if, we have a referendum, and if it fails, when will the next one be?

[Ghostrider]

47 minutes ago, Rasmie said:

And if, we have a referendum, and if it fails, when will the next one be?

I predict +/- 2030, if the Nats don't implode in to there own quagmire before then.

[Colin]

3 hours ago, Rasmie said:

And if, we have a referendum, and if it fails, when will the next one be?

As soon as possible afterwards.  They will keep pushig until they get the answer they want.