Electric Vehicles

[Rasmie]

The normal cost is 14-15 p per kWH, but I see my supplier Scottish Power stating they have reduced prices for charging vehicles overnight at home. My current diesel car costs  about £5.85 for 55 miles. about 10.6 p per mile. So the price you are quoting,  George,  is bad.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Rasmie

[Rasmie]

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/costs

 

heres a quote of 5p a mile from EDF

[Urabug]

Taking into consideration that the life span of batteries are approx 8yrs,and which are very expensive to replace I wonder if many will want to buy used vehicles that come anywhere near this age consequentially affecting the resale value.

Taking this into consideration I wonder if it really does work out cheaper to go electric, might be for those lucky enough to afford a brand new car.

[Rasmie]

I don't think there will be any choice. It will be drive electric, or get the (electric) bus. The price of diesel and petrol will be forced up so that people can't

afford them. Most people will probably end up leasing as the cars are so expensive, and like a mobile phone will just be a monthly bill.

[George.]

15 hours ago, Rasmie said:

The normal cost is 14-15 p per kWH, but I see my supplier Scottish Power stating they have reduced prices for charging vehicles overnight at home. My current diesel car costs  about £5.85 for 55 miles. about 10.6 p per mile. So the price you are quoting,  George,  is bad.

I've just checked the prices stated by EDF on https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/costs where they charge 26p per kWh for, as stated, a Tesla vehicle. So why the difference?

[Rasmie]

^^the difference is between plugging in at home, and,  those prices are for superchargers or rapid chargers. If you have to charge up on the motorway it looks like you'll pay through the nose. Also the governments will have to claw back the tax they lose on Road tax and fuel tax so expect there to be some increased costs in future. 

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

> Pay just 4.5p per kWh during off-peak (12 am to 5 am GMT every day)

I notice on the EDF site prices are even lower now !


> the life span of batteries are approx 8yrs

I wonder if these will last longer ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EBI-N0KTk
> New Battery technology that lasts decades,
> Lithium Titanate Oxid - LTO

-------
A battery with a lifespan of a human being? Yes, with up to 30 000 cycles, it may serve you 82 years (one cycle per day).
-------

I want to use these in my next EV, since they can be charged @ -30c, so no worries when its cold outside.

[XAM7102]

In the next decade the evolusion of batteries will be huge. 

Autonomus Smart transport is where it will eventually go, you will probably have a monthly contract and when you want to go some where you will select your journey on a device and a few minutes later your transport will arrive and take you where you want. 

Private car transport will decline.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by XAM7102

[George.]

Switching to an EV is the environmentally positive change you can make today

[XAM7102]

On 13/04/2021 at 09:24, George. said:

Switching to an EV is the environmentally positive change you can make today

I want to see more info on where and how they are sourcing the lithium and low energy materials for building all these EV's. We all no too well that people somewhere are getting exploited and paid low wages in horrid conditions just so the ones who can afford it can drive around thinking there a saviour of the enviroment in thier shiny new EV. 

The fact that car's are used for the journey then sit idle for long periods make private ownership a bad case for the environment. 

Drive to work, car sits all day not used, drive home and possibly a stop at the shop or a visit and then the car sits all night unused, very unefficent even for EV's when you take into account the energy resources for building, shipping, marketing etc. 

Private car ownership needs to eventually be banned.

[George.]

3 hours ago, XAM7102 said:

Private car ownership needs to eventually be banned.

I can see Shetland starting a twenty-four hour bus service next week.

[XAM7102]

11 hours ago, George. said:

I can see Shetland starting a twenty-four hour bus service next week.

Note the word eventually, i am talking a long time away tech/software and self driving transport has to be perfected first, in reality it probably won't be banned but i reckon it will decrease in time as subscription based autonomus transport will make owning your own car less appealing financially and without the hassle of maintenance, depreciation, insurance, tax etc. 

This is just my theory based on things ive read and science/technology podcasts ive listened to. 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by XAM7102

[XAM7102]

Level 0 (No-Automation): The driver is in complete and sole control of the primary vehicle controls - brake, steering, throttle, and motive power - at all times.

Level 1 (Function-specific Automation): Automation at this level involves one or more specific control functions. Examples include electronic stability control or pre-charged brakes, where the vehicle automatically assists with braking to enable the driver to regain control of the vehicle or stop faster than possible by acting alone.

Level 2 (Combined Function Automation): This level involves automation of at least two primary control functions designed to work in unison to relieve the driver of control of those functions. An example of combined functions enabling a Level 2 system is adaptive cruise control in combination with lane centering.

Level 3 (Limited Self-Driving Automation): Vehicles at this level of automation enable the driver to cede full control of all safety-critical functions under certain traffic or environmental conditions and in those conditions to rely heavily on the vehicle to monitor for changes in those conditions requiring transition back to driver control. The driver is expected to be available for occasional control, but with sufficiently comfortable transition time. The Google car is an example of limited self-driving automation.

Level 4 (Full Self-Driving Automation): The vehicle is designed to perform all safety-critical driving functions and monitor roadway conditions for an entire trip. Such a design anticipates that the driver will provide destination or navigation input, but is not expected to be available for control at any time during the trip. This includes both occupied and unoccupied vehicles.

[XAM7102]

Post from an article i read recently.

The question of how quickly Autonomous vehicles will establish market dominance is difficult, and a range of opinions have been offered. A number of car companies have predicted the fully autonomous vehicles will be on the market within the next 5-10 years - this includes Audi in 2017 (Torr, 2014), Ford in 2020 (Su, 2015), Nissan in 2020 (Nissan, 2013) and Tesla in 2023 (Kaufman, 2014). Google is probably most most advanced, and they plan to have a driverless car in the market by 2018 (Tam, 2012). How quickly the market will take up these vehicles is unknown, and most projections are done by looking at the growth rate of previous technologies. In 2012, a panel of IEEE members predicted that 75% of the fleet would be autonomous by 2040 (IEEE, 2012). The Victoria Transport Policy Institute (Litman, 2015) predicts a slower uptake - with the 75% market being achieved by 2060. This was based on comparisons with other vehicle technologies, such as automatic transmission, on-board navigation and hybrid vehicles, all of which took several decades to reach significant market capture. The FP Think Working Group (Bierstedt et al, 2014) acknowledges that there will be a number of factors that will accelerate the market penetration of AV - including very high rewards to the first movers, and the significant improvements to road safety. This leads them to predict that 25% of the fleet will be autonomous by 2035, with 95% penetration by 2040 when possible government mandates, or subscription based transport services are established. They predict that vehicles without a legal driver will be possible by 2050. These projections are based on the assumption that autonomous vehicles will grow similarly to other vehicle technologies. But there is an argument that they could be more like technology products, which tend to have a much faster uptake profile; Personal Computers took only 20 years to go from first product to 80% coverage (in developed countries). Mobile phones were faster than this at only 15 years, and smartphone are almost at 80% after only 10 years (comScore, 2015). Admittedly these are cheaper devices than cars and generally have a higher turnover rate. But the average age of an Australian car is only 10 years, 40% of cars in Australia are less than 5 years old, and the number of new sales each year is almost 9% of the fleet (based on ABS Motor Vehicle Census and Sales of New Motor Vehicles). If autonomous cars can be made safely and affordably, there is no reason that they could not be taken up at a very fast rate. Finally, there is good evidence that the rate of new technology adoption is still increasing. The following chart (Felton, 2008) shows the percentage of US houses owning various technological products over the last 100 years. It can be seen that all of the newer products have been taken up at a much faster rate than the older ones. It is at least possible that autonomous vehicles could follow this trend

Edited April 15, 2021 by XAM7102

[George.]

In the next few years there may well be one major changes regarding just what autonomous vehicles are used for around here.

Robo-taxi fleets