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Proposed Co-op Stores in Scalloway & Sandwick ?


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Do you support the CO-OP stores planned in Scalloway & Sandwick  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support the CO-OP stores planned in Scalloway & Sandwick

    • YES - I support both
      8
    • I support the Scalloway Co-op, but not Sandwick
      1
    • I support the Sandwick Co-op, but not Scalloway
      3
    • NO - I support neither
      10


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Because A Lidl or Aldi would have to select a great spot AND be competing mostly for the business of locals during the upcoming recession.

Thus you need to give Co-Op and Tesco a serious run for their money so rather than crowding up a place where the residents already have a large selection of shops.

As a way to give them a competitive edge they could theoretically compete with Lerwick itself, Bring what those from the smaller villages go to Lerwick for and offer to Lerwick what they go to Aberdeen for.

 

An ambitious well placed retail park/service station would be practical if it was wanted by local residents.

It would need to have a few extras to sweeten the deal, Why does one go to Lerwick instead of their local village shop?

 

You need to go to Lerwick for the bank and for what is not sold in your area,

Asda has had some Barclay’s machines and a branch employee would be present from time to time to go through whatever they would need and go to an office to discuss loans, Mortgages etc

Why not copy this idea these are cheaper to run than most banks since the shop covers most of the security and they can be unmanned until somebody books an appointment.

Keeping somebody there all day even on minimum wage is costly and that’s why remote areas lose their branches so often.

 

Sometimes bigger stores put small kiosks and market stalls to collect a bit of rent,

So a bit like that Van that sells food outside Tesco, Seen the guy using a generator they should wire in an IP44 plug for him and bill the guy less than the cost of fuel for that would be a win win.

 

Competing with Lerwick and Aberdeen is an out of the box idea that as outlandish as it seems makes more sense than hovering up crumbs left by other Lerwick shops or Opening across the road from Sandwick baking company

 

Since market stalls are more accessible to somebody with a business idea than throwing down several thousand to rent and renovate a space that could be locked down at any moment and have you on the hook for rent.

 

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/06/22/decision-on-mobile-van-planning-appeal-deferred/

 

 

Opportunity brings people in I remember my first boss required everyone who went for an interview to buy something from the restaurant to get an interview, we got lots of sales of this so it was probably worth interviewing 7/10 of the customers during the last recession

My ideal location would be at Tingwall near the Westside junction.

 

buses farther north are a bit patchy so that would disincentivize tourists who would be worried about going there and missing the last bus,

i walked past tourists and seen them get off a bus further down the road meaning they boarded and got off a bus in the time it took to walk so something to be said about fear of getting lost or needing directions.

 

get some buses to terminate in this hypothetical retail park in perhaps Tingwall instead of the Viking Bus station,

send buses further north straight there instead of Lerwick Subtract the cost of running the bus all the way to Lerwick and add the extra customers going to the retail park and maybe more frequent runs become viable.

 

if this was a bad location this would just annoy everyone but if it was worth going to the retail park one might be happier going there than going all the way to Lerwick

Edited by NullVoid
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^ 30% of customers are in the toon, who already have as their 'go to' shop as the Coop and/or Tesco. Getting any appreciable percentage of them to go on an 'out of town' shop would take a lot of work.

 

The other 70% for a significant part have their 'go to' shop in their home area, a Coop/Tesco run is an occasional thing, if ever.

 

A Tingwall site would tempt those from west/north who already make toon shopping trips, but would need to offer something really special to attract many toonies out that far, or more from west/north to make trips in. For folk coming in from south, Tesco is a who lot nearer and easier to get to from the Hollander Knowe than Tingwall is, again it would need something really special to get any appreciable number to make that left turn. I'm unconvinced either Lidl or Aldi have that much 'special' to offer.

 

Rip up the road from Hollanders Knowe to Shurton forcing everybody from sooth owre through the Black Gaet to get to the toon, and a Tingwall site would snare most from everywhere but the toon. As is, Tingwall realistically would only snare folk from west/north and a small trickle from the toon and southward.

 

There's probably only in the mid to high teens of thousand of bona fide 'shoppers' in Shetland, the rest being too young or too old, and have it done for them ie. whoever does the actual shopping is going to influence where its being done at.

 

That's not a lot of shoppers to divvy up between two let alone three. To survive a newcomer would have to squeeze out one of the two existing, which probably wouldn't be too hard if they were ready and prepared for the inevitable price war to decide the winner, but to have a chance of coming out ahead IMHO any challenger needs to be within easy walking distance, preferably line of sight of their competition to have a chance. Folk need to be put in a position where they make a conscious decision between two doors standing right in front of them (methaphorically if not literally - Toon or Tingwall is too far apart for that to work). Otherwise old habits die hard.

 

Personally I'd prefer to see Tesco packing their bags and heading out the sooth mooth, having sold the building to Lidl, but I don't see that happening any time soon. What I'd really like to see is Tesco selling the building to somebody like Sainsbury's, but that's just a fantasy....ain't happening this life.

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That's not a lot of shoppers to divvy up between two let alone three. To survive a newcomer would have to squeeze out one of the two existing, which probably wouldn't be too hard if they were ready and prepared for the inevitable price war to decide the winner, but to have a chance of coming out ahead IMHO any challenger needs to be within easy walking distance, preferably line of sight of their competition to have a chance. Folk need to be put in a position where they make a conscious decision between two doors standing right in front of them (methaphorically if not literally - Toon or Tingwall is too far apart for that to work). Otherwise old habits die hard.

 

Price war isn't much since the chains aim to have the price same everywhere no maer which part of the uk you are in and since getting the snivels will get you losing your livelihood for a while and house arrest Home delivery is going to boost Tesco significantly during lock-down.

 

 

A Tingwall site would tempt those from west/north who already make toon shopping trips, but would need to offer something really special to attract many toonies out that far, or more from west/north to make trips in. For folk coming in from south, Tesco is a who lot nearer and easier to get to from the Hollander Knowe than Tingwall is, again it would need something really special to get any appreciable number to make that left turn. I'm unconvinced either Lidl or Aldi have that much 'special' to offer.

 

Rip up the road from Hollanders Knowe to Shurton forcing everybody from sooth owre through the Black Gaet to get to the toon, and a Tingwall site would snare most from everywhere but the toon. As is, Tingwall realistically would only snare folk from west/north and a small trickle from the toon and southward.

 

There's probably only in the mid to high teens of thousand of bona fide 'shoppers' in Shetland, the rest being too young or too old, and have it done for them ie. whoever does the actual shopping is going to influence where its being done at.

 

 

Offering services like one of those in store bank branches or a bus station,

By terminating a bunch of buses from here there that would normally go to Lerwick from everywhere up north  and west at Tingwall or the other possible spots and funnel everyone who wants go  to Lerwick into the airport bus you might be scale back the buses to Lerwick to exactly what s needed at this bottleneck.

for example the Mossbank and Scalloway bus cut time off the last leg of the journey run less empty buses when its less busy especially important with less used routes.

 

multiple things would need to fit together to complete the puzzle,

I wonder if it is viable to shift Tingwall airport stuff to Scatsta to use the site probably somebody knows why that's a bad idea but interesting topic everything fair game to chose a hypothetical location if argument can be made.

i recall being told Shetlands capital was built to compete with its original capital, seems like that worked out.

Edited by NullVoid
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^ Yup, agreed, anyone attempting to take on Tesco, probably at any time, but certainly while we live in the Police state that is the 'rona world, would need to offer home delivery or it won't work out for them. At least as long as Tesco do deliveries themselves, I've always had a sense that they didn't start doing it as they saw it was a wise business move in and of itself, but rather a move forced upon them to be able to compete with their rivals nationally who brought it in first, and they'd not exactly be sorry to drop it if they could. The 'rona coming along is just a fortunate unforeseen bonus that for a little while makes it a far more profitable exercise.

 

Incorporating a bus station, perhaps, but how many folk shop via bus, especially with home delivery available. How many of the population actually use buses period, for anything, how many more could be persuaded to..... I dunno, not really seeing the nubers stacking up enough to work, but maybe.....

 

A Bank, a few years back could have worked, but considering how near to a cashless online banking only nation they've managed to lead us, would a bank really make any noticable difference to footfall these days.

 

It makes little sense to have a mothballed airport and a very little used airport located so close together, on the face of it one could easily be sacrificed to alternative development. Its a lot longer road trip to the GB for Ambulances from Scatsta than from Tingwall though, and the owner(s) of the Tingwall greenhouses site long ago spoke of the possibilities of redeveloping that site as an out of town shopping centre, but it would appear that no-one ever had adequate conficence in its potential to commit the necessary investment, so would a supermarket see it differently.

 

Realistically though the toon is long since run out of suitable sites of adequate size without a massive demolition programme, and the geography and climate isn't helpful with anything nearer outside teh toom than Tingwall of Quarff, so it really has to be Tingwall from that two (no offence to Quarff, its just that the potential customer base drops proportionately with each mile south of the toon you go). I'm not saying that Tingwall couldn't necessarily be made to work, but I'd not feel confident enough that it would to buy any shares in the venture, and I have doubts that any national chain looking from the outside would have more.

 

I'd love to be proven wrong, but if Lidl, Aldi or any other supermarket seriously want to get in here, the only way I'm realistically seeing it happening is if they buy out one of the existing two.

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^ Yup, agreed, anyone attempting to take on Tesco, probably at any time, but certainly while we live in the Police state that is the 'rona world, would need to offer home delivery or it won't work out for them. At least as long as Tesco do deliveries themselves, I've always had a sense that they didn't start doing it as they saw it was a wise business move in and of itself, but rather a move forced upon them to be able to compete with their rivals nationally who brought it in first, and they'd not exactly be sorry to drop it if they could. The 'rona coming along is just a fortunate unforeseen bonus that for a little while makes it a far more profitable exercise.

 

Incorporating a bus station, perhaps, but how many folk shop via bus, especially with home delivery available. How many of the population actually use buses period, for anything, how many more could be persuaded to..... I dunno, not really seeing the nubers stacking up enough to work, but maybe.....

 

A Bank, a few years back could have worked, but considering how near to a cashless online banking only nation they've managed to lead us, would a bank really make any noticable difference to footfall these days.

 

It makes little sense to have a mothballed airport and a very little used airport located so close together, on the face of it one could easily be sacrificed to alternative development. Its a lot longer road trip to the GB for Ambulances from Scatsta than from Tingwall though, and the owner(s) of the Tingwall greenhouses site long ago spoke of the possibilities of redeveloping that site as an out of town shopping centre, but it would appear that no-one ever had adequate conficence in its potential to commit the necessary investment, so would a supermarket see it differently.

 

Realistically though the toon is long since run out of suitable sites of adequate size without a massive demolition programme, and the geography and climate isn't helpful with anything nearer outside teh toom than Tingwall of Quarff, so it really has to be Tingwall from that two (no offence to Quarff, its just that the potential customer base drops proportionately with each mile south of the toon you go). I'm not saying that Tingwall couldn't necessarily be made to work, but I'd not feel confident enough that it would to buy any shares in the venture, and I have doubts that any national chain looking from the outside would have more.

 

I'd love to be proven wrong, but if Lidl, Aldi or any other supermarket seriously want to get in here, the only way I'm realistically seeing it happening is if they buy out one of the existing two.

i cant see how aldi or lidl would have any problem competing with tesco if they where right next door look at the kantar world panel data tesco have consistently lost market share for the last 5 years and aldi and lidl have grown constantly and most of there sites are within close proximity of supermarkets also the only other chain growing is the coop who are without a doubt building in sandwick and scalloway 

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i cant see how aldi or lidl would have any problem competing with tesco if they where right next door look at the kantar world panel data tesco have consistently lost market share for the last 5 years and aldi and lidl have grown constantly and most of there sites are within close proximity of supermarkets also the only other chain growing is the coop who are without a doubt building in sandwick and scalloway

 

Those areas have quite a few shops already although locals would want more shops relative to the population most have shops within reasonable walking distance,

South mainland is basically a rectangle with a road down the middle and if you go there from elsewhere in Shetland you are likely to pass Lerwick or Scalloway and having less customers passing through makes the area less attractive for a business, Plus there are a bunch of shops selling Co-Op own band goods nearby anyway, not exactly an untapped goldmine.

 

if it is infeasible to build in the town with nearly half of Shetlands population you need to expose yourself to as much of the other half as you can and being at the crossroads can help with that, but you need more than just a supermarket.

 

maybe some local Aldi knockoff could build and try to sell to the real thing,

Asda copied Walmart and was bought by the same company they emulated so much not long after.

 

 

Aldi trials Deliveroo service at these Scottish stores

 

It may well not be too long until they're doing it around here.

How many customers from smaller islands would a Pick up your shopping at the ferry terminal arrangement get you,

even a remote shop might be cautiously optimistic about supplying Aldi goods for a share of the delivery charge.

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barclays-bank-41610.jpg

this was in the back of a supermarket next to the clothes,

Bread

Milk

Cheese

Eggs

Banking

 

probably an interview room behind it

A Bank, a few years back could have worked, but considering how near to a cashless online banking only nation they've managed to lead us, would a bank really make any noticable difference to footfall these days.
 

 

Putting banks in the back of stores was trailed at a minuscule amount of places, not much footage of them but they have the same machines in normal branches

Keeping the machines going and the lights on is an unavoidable expense but it seems like the physical presence of an employee is the biggest obstacle to putting branches in far flung places.

Just make that guy appointment only and at busy times and move from branch to branch in the more remote areas, having a local branch is a good way to hold onto customers.

 

You can be on the phone for several hours and be cut off multiple times if anything goes wrong,

gotta pay for your phone bill if you want to call some banks which is less than ideal if you don't have access.

Barclays Essentials seems to be its name seems to have closed most of them all down but it was only 8 tested and none too far from a regular Barclays branch.

although it is worth noting they started puling the plug pre-lockdown and some survived perhaps the game has changed in the post lockdown world

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change.

You aren't getting your mortgage through the banks app and if the loan is for something big or one of those things that makes the bank profit,

or if your identity is in doubt or you aren't a customer yet they still have some need for a face to face meeting.

seems like the experiment could be viable in other areas such as this place possibly in or around Tingwall

 

If Market stalls/kiosks, Bank and Bus Hub is not enough to make the idea viable is there anything else that could reasonably be added?

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How many customers from smaller islands would a Pick up your shopping at the ferry terminal arrangement get you,

even a remote shop might be cautiously optimistic about supplying Aldi goods for a share of the delivery charge.

 

Deliveroo would, I expect, deliver about the same amount to the islands as Tesco. None. About the same amount that they would put on the boat for you. All people, from Grutness to North Roe, would hopefully get the same service from Deliveroo as they do from Tesco, though.

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Haven’t been there this year but when you get off the ferry to Aberdeen you will see a few guys you recognize from the ferry waiting around in Union Square because nothing is open yet or maybe just waiting for the train a few hours hence since it’s a bit more cozy there, pretty much the gateway to the rest of the UK if you aren’t driving so their shops can benefit from some bored travelers waiting to go to the next leg of their journey.

Got rid of my last car before I moved to Shetland because it was useless on snow and I can’t stand driving for longer than 11 hours,

Regardless I remember missing the last afternoon bus in Lerwick and had to wait several hours for the night bus, I went to get a meal where you can eat in, explained my predicament and waited in a dining room for most of the waiting time wasn’t busy so this was no problem.

Glad this situation was Pre-Lockdown, but my point is you will be worried about being turned away because of “covid” and being in an unfamiliar area with no business opening its doors to give you shelter from the elements is like being up Skitcreak without a paddle.

 

potential tourist of 2021 might worry about calling a taxi when there is no signal and its too pitch black to find any landmark? These are scenarios that would go through the minds of tourists who could be potential customers a bus station might be a place where they could clear up those concerns.

 

A bus station with a lidl-like shop etc at crossroads to the various places you that would go to get you to the more remote areas if well planned might have the psychological effect of making more remote areas less risky to explore.

 

Familiar ways to get our of the “you are lost in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night” conundrum don’t factor in “covid” hotel closures and local people potentially being less inclined to help a lost guy for fear of “covid” that the tourists of 2021 will face.

 

That is why I think a Gateway/Waiting room to off the beaten track parts could be a viable option, would need something to give it the local touch so a marketplace for goods from far-flung parts or meeting spot for tours perhaps.

most of the points of entry to Mainland Shetland are north or Lerwick

 

Banks and other institutions will need to rely more on Super-ATMs in the future,

Lockdown is basically a done deal and going to last indefinitely unless a coup or loss of grip on power happens so businesses must adapt to indefinite lockdown.

Scan your id and make an account in front of a CCTV camera because doing it all online will make it easier for fraudsters to collect information using spyware and get enough to make a withdrawal.

 

If a bank stopped opening accounts for customers in 2010 they would deny themselves the businesses of everyone who is now an adult but wasn't back then so to avoid putting themselves in that scenario after multiple years of lock-down they must find ways to adapt to lack of face to face meetings.

 

My view on how the next 5 years are going to pan out for tourism with regards to second and third lockdown and why buses will be more important than ever.

Depending on how well the anti-lockdown party does in the 2024 election maybe the politicians will try to appeal to their voters without actually giving them what they wanted,

Maybe get 1 seat at best while most just vote for Lib-Lab-Con, SNP, Plaid etc because reasons.

After bout 4 years of driving tests being switched off and on again because of (((covid))) there will be quite the glut of those who might be able to drive but cannot get a license and the small few who still have money despite the odds might feel like going on holiday because why not,thus buses will play a greater role.

And who in 2021 has a spare two hundred trillion pound note(12 USD in 2019 money) to pay the new road use tax after all, or a car for that matter.

Tourism could be spurred by trolling everyone who moans about the next heatwave or perhaps Islands might seem like the perfect getaway from the marauding street gangs of cannibals that characterize city life on the largely homeless and indigent British mainland in 2021

 

Did you flatten the curve?

Yes

What did it cost?

Everything!

 

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  • 4 months later...

It makes sense. Sandwick's population has grown considerably and has probably overtaken Scalloway and Brae . Additionally there is Bigton, Levenwick and Da Ness to the South of it and Cunningsburgh just a couple of miles north.  I wonder if The Sandwick Baking Company will concentrate on the bakery and Post Office. so it might even benefit from another shop nearby.

Edited by Rasmie
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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2021/03/30/co-op-plans-to-expand-with-shops-in-sandwick-and-scalloway/

Are you in favour or do you think it will destroy the local economy and result in huge job losses some are predicting.

\

** admin edit - thanks for starting the poll XAM7102, we've added a couple of additional choices **

Edited by admin
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Our local shop in Sandwick is limited in stock such that we still need to go to da toon. However it is very useful and can provide enough to live on if not too fussy. The unit includes post office and bakery, both of which might not survive on their own. So balancing things it is probably important that the shop continues as is. Pity they were unable to get a bit of land to expand the shop size, but that could be overcome with a bit of local diplomacy I’m sure.

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It's a bit of a mixed bag in that larger stores will bring more jobs, more choice and, on the back of that, reduce the number of trips to Lerwick. I can't help but feel it'll mean the end for the smaller shops, however. I'd certainly hope the Sandwick bakery would keep going... but the PO must surely be tied to the shop's fate.

I just hope the Scalloway one doesn't sink!

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  • admin changed the title to Proposed Co-op Stores in Scalloway & Sandwick ?

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