Fjool Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Are you saying they charge you even if you've never ever been overdrawn ? What a disingenuous question. You know I'm not saying this and you also know that it's besides the point. I'm saying that they've deliberately and demonstrably blurred their charging system to maximise the revenue the make from these errors. I had an agreed overdraft (small, temporary; came with the account), and the only time I have gone over the limit was because they saved charges from months when I was nowhere near the limit and applied them at points where it would push the debt above the credit limit. They then charge £25 for this, plus £5 per day that it's overdrawn - and they don't tell you about these charges until next month. Maybe you could argue that this is fair enough (doubtful that you'd convicnce me though). However, on this occasion, I paid them every sodding penny I owed: I got an up-to-date statement and paid this money. But, because of the 4 days to accept my money and the immediate withdrawl of my overdraft facility (funny how they can do that instantly), they considered the account to be overdrawn by the full amount for the entire duration. When my money finally cleared it was, obviously, not enough to cover the account anymore and hence more charges. All this despite the fact that we had told them exactly what was going on and they agreed to it. They said that this would suffice and they would close the account upon receipt. They lied and are now charging me for it. So, no, I'm not saying I've never been overdrawn; I'm saying they're deliberately making it impossible to comply with their requirements. The only reason this account is overdrawn today is because they've been playing these tricks. So, with all due respect: Get off your high-horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Am I right in thinking that Smile is part of the caring, sharing co-op. Demonstrating that they neither share nor care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Am I right in thinking that Smile is part of the caring, sharing co-op. Demonstrating that they neither share nor care. Yes. It's just one of their many fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFly Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I left Lloyds TSB because of a tale of woe much like the one you told above Fjool. I opened an account with Smile about two years ago and I have to say that they've been very good to me so far. Definitely sounds like they're no better than the rest from you've said though....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Part of the problem I've had, McFly, is that my wife and I opened this as a joint account with a view to it becoming our working current account. They initially mangled the transfer of our direct debits (something they said would be "no problem") and we're still not recovered financially because of this initial mistake. Because of these problems, we were forced to make use of their overdraft facility (for trivial stuff like... oh .. feeding the children, keeping the house warm, etc ). We should have simply closed the account then but by this time they had us trapped; and we still naively figured that it was worth persisting to get things correct. Almost a year on and we receive spurious charges on a monthly basis, for things which, at the root of it, they have caused. On the other hand, I've used my other account for many years with no problems at all; no fees, charges or anything. I mange my finances fine when there's a level playing-field and I'm given the correct information. Frankie can be as smug as he likes but I know he'd be spitting blood if they tried to pull this kind of turd on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I had an agreed overdraft (small, temporary; came with the account), and the only time I have gone over the limit was because they saved charges from months when I was nowhere near the limit and applied them at points where it would push the debt above the credit limit. They then charge £25 for this, plus £5 per day that it's overdrawn - and they don't tell you about these charges until next month. Paragraph 5.1 of their T&C's says if you are over the agreed overdraft limit they will.... ......charge debit interest to your account on a monthly basis. So I cannot see how they can justify charging you with several months worth of interest all at once ? The £25 charge and £5 per day charge for unauthorised overdraft is clearly stated in their T&C's however. But it would appear you shouldn't have paid this in the first place. Looks like you are not going to have it easy recovering your losses though. I have stayed with the same bank for years now, they might not have the best interest rates etc., but I'd like to think that if I accidently went over drawn they would look at it sympathetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 The £25 charge and £5 per day charge for unauthorised overdraft is clearly stated in their T&C's however. You're absolutely right but 'clearly stated' does not mean it is lawful. Just because something is legal does not make it moral. This is the point I am trying to make. The problem I have with all this is that their charges are disproportionate and irresponsible. The system has flaws in it which it does not suit them to correct. They say that I owe money which I don't believe I have received any kind of service for at all. What other profession can boast this level of control of its customers? They have designed a financial trap and it is literally screwing folks over. It is ridiculous to assume that a person should put up with this kind of behaviour simply because the bank says so. The 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act and 1999 Consumer Credit Act agree with me, it would seem. Also consider the following: Bank charges are not legally enforceable. Penalty clauses in contracts in English (and Scottish) law for breach of contract aren’t legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party.http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632, To justify a £25 delinquency charge, Smile are going to have to demonstrate that it actually costs them this. I don't believe that this is a reasonable charge. Do you? Do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 To justify a £25 delinquency charge, Smile are going to have to demonstrate that it actually costs them this. I don't believe that this is a reasonable charge. Do you? Do they? They may well be able to justify the £25 charge, but the £5 a day charge would be more difficult to justify in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Seems that a lot of banks are having trouble justifying the £25 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 http://www.fool.co.uk/news/Comment/2006/c060630f.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Thanks, Frankie. That looks like a very useful link which I'll read through this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Thanks, Frankie. That looks like a very useful link which I'll read through this evening. I thought it was you who wrote it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Update Smile wrote to me this morning, unconditionally agreeing to refund every penny I demanded (£465). They're calling it a 'gesture of goodwill'; i.e. they are accepting no liability. Suck it, ya wunch of bankers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted November 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Congrats I started proceedings with RBS last week via an independent company... will keep y'all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Well done Fjool. I love to see people getting fair play from these institutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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