Religion & Theology (& should we respect beliefs)

[Gibber]

scoots, your posts are great.

 

Just to avoid confusion, you mean Christian Rome when you say Holy Roman Empire rather than the Holy Roman Empire of german city states from the 10th century onwards right?

[EM]

But what to do with a horned, half-animal God consort? Hmmm a problem, this one. They couldn't exactly have St Carnun the horny, could they?

Nevertheless they did go with Moses the Horny for a very long time. You get various explanations of why Moses is so often depicted with horns (mistranslations etc.), but it seems to be referencing earlier pagan concepts. The light beams are just a variation of the horns.

[scoots]

Yes, Gibber, very good point. Sorry to have confused anyone. I'm referring to the Roman Emperors after Constantine, who depicted themselves as Son of God, and who promulgated the "all-new, exciting, guaranteed to get those nasty stains out of your soul (as long as you are subservient to us and don't ask questions) brand of Nicene Christianity that, in essence, is still followed to this day - and in many cases, literally!

 

Glad you are enjoying the posts, folks. It's all based on historical and accredited sources, unlike the psychotic ramblings of a self-promoting megalomaniac and a drug-addled old man (Revelations, anyone? Those were some baaaaaaad mushrooms that feller was chomping on a regular basis!!

 

Another very valid point, EM. Especially as the previous gods of that region tended to be animalistic, and the strongest and most important were horned (Ba'al, for a start). He accepted burnt offerings and blood sacrifices also, of animals and humans. He and Yahweh were big rivals, once Abraham organised the Hebrews. Then when Moses came along, with his extensive military and strategic training and experience, things really got going for old Yahweh and his followers. There were not many men of his day, with those abilities. Add to that a bitterness for the Pharoah who had effectively sold him out, trying to kill him or engineer his death on numerous occasions, and you have a man capable of uniting the desert tribes of the Hebrews and weaponising them in much the same way as Attila and Genghis Khan would also achieve with their peoples.

 

Debate, discuss, argue and share. That's my way of doing things. Hope that's okay with you all.

[unlinkedstudent]

Well, my bondage question/2nd of the Ten Commandments hasn't been answered on previous thread and I'm hazarding a guess that it relates to one or more of the Egyptian Gods/Goddesses.

 

Oooh, watching Stargate on the telly never gonna be the same again! (Actually, bring back Babylon 5 cos that was great!)

 

Nope, couldn't resist!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFBzzugqbuo&feature=related

[Scarf]

You are welcome to believe whatever you want, however if you try to influence my life with your religion then you can go forth and multiply.

 

The placing of religious people in positions of power simply because they feel the need to stick their oar in annoys the {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} out of me. They are seldom challenged in this because you can't challenge religion without being frowned upon.

[scoots]

Sorry unlinked, I missed your first post. What's your question re bondage?

[Shetland_boys]

I respect everyone but i think it is stupid when people are religious when it suits them, my friend who is a catholic told me i was going to burn in hell because im gay yet she has had sex and a baby before marrige and she also takes drugs and drinks, yet she is a devoted catholic

[unlinkedstudent]

Sorry unlinked, I missed your first post. What's your question re bondage?

 

It is on the school religion thread.

[scoots]

Easy answer here, unlinked.

 

2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

 

"The house of bondage", in this instance, refers to the enslavement of the Hebrews by the Egyptians.

 

Around 1500 BC, a tribe of Hebrews, claiming direct descent from Abraham, had migrated into Egypt, via several other countries in the region. They were, by nature, an historically vagrant or nomadic people. This particular tribe began calling themselves "Israelites", or "Soldiers of God". Unfortunately, on their arrival in Egypt, they were promptly enslaved and taken into bondage.

 

In this instance, it refers to slavery or forced servitude, not some hinky sexual practice.

 

So, when they were united and liberated from their Egyptian oppressors, by the charismatic and established leader and, in fact, general, called Moses, they were "delivered" from the "house of bondage".

 

Moses then united all of the Hebraic tribes, by bringing their fiercest god into

it, "bigging him up" and promoting him to the "one true God" of the Gebrews. He then neatly blended in the rituals and practices of the Egyptian High Priests, which had, in turn, been strongly influenced by the Sumerians and other high civilisations who preceded them. This allowed him to control them, where sheer force would, likely have failed. He took a fragmented superstitious and sprawling number of fairly disparate tribes and united them by showing them what "their" god, Yahweh, could achieve, with early victories over forces sent against them by the Pharoah as punishment and a further attempt to kill the, by now, thoroughly dangerous Moses.

 

His knowledge of Egyptian military tactics, the forces who would be sent against them, and his experience in guerilla tactics against a superior force, coupled with the sheer viciousness of the work and desert-hardened Hebrews, saw a decisive victory. "Yahweh" had fulfilled his promise to "His chosen people", and the world - and Western civilisation as we know it - would never be the same again.

 

I hope this helps...

[unlinkedstudent]

Cheers. Someone had mentioned to me how bondage was a term for slavery. If anything, I think it illustrates had words/fables can be misinterpreted. Surprised, however, now that I have googled it, that someone on the school religion thread hadn't answered far sooner but thanks for your answer.

[mrspeeebeee]

The question of the thread is "Religious Beliefs - should we respect them?"

 

My two penn'arth would be I would humbly respect anyone's decision not to believe as I would hope they would respect the decision I have made to believe.

 

I guess in today's language you could correlate Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to these ghost hunter type series we have on most Sky channels:

 

- to the skeptic no proof is enough; to the believer no proof is necessary.

[Guest posiedon]

unlinkedstudent,

however, now that I have googled it, that someone on the school religion thread hadn't answered far sooner but thanks for your answer.

If you mean one of the religious apologists, I think you'll find they know very little about what's written in the bible.

 

Atheists & Agnostics know more about the bible.

[unlinkedstudent]

unlinkedstudent,

however, now that I have googled it, that someone on the school religion thread hadn't answered far sooner but thanks for your answer.

If you mean one of the religious apologists, I think you'll find they know very little about what's written in the bible.

 

Atheists & Agnostics know more about the bible.

 

Yep!

[scoots]

The question of the thread is "Religious Beliefs - should we respect them?"

 

My two penn'arth would be I would humbly respect anyone's decision not to believe as I would hope they would respect the decision I have made to believe.

 

I guess in today's language you could correlate Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to these ghost hunter type series we have on most Sky channels:

 

- to the skeptic no proof is enough; to the believer no proof is necessary.

 

To me, in order to respect something, especially something so huge as a religion, you must first understand it. And, in order to understand it, you must analyse it, look at it's origins, how it came about, and the veracity - or otherwise - of it's core tenets and beliefs.

 

That's what I have sought to do with Christianity, just as I have done with other religions. However, it's Christianity that I focussed on here, as it was featured heavily and discussed in another thread, where it was muddying the waters somewhat.

 

If we are doing the same again here, maybe we should start a thread specifically for this? Surely we don't have to?

 

I have said time and again that I respect the right of others to believe. But I object to ignorant folk, who have not the faintest clue of the reality behind the fabrications in the New Testament, pushing their superstitions onto me or mine.

[unlinkedstudent]

Okay then, travel back to the musical 'brainwashing' of my youth up until I was 12. Dad was conductor of the Sunday School choir so I got dragged along into that. Add into the mix that grandparents went to Salvation Army and it results in something like this:-

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLAg2NDcOt4&feature=fvwrel

 

and this:

 

 

but I could tolerate this (even if I couldn't get the low notes but parents aren't American):

 

 

Thankfully, I refused to be confirmed during my teens, was excused Sunday School and my Dad definitely decided I was a product of the Devil for being saved by this (getting thrown out of the Girl Guides for swearing probably helped me en route too)

 

 

And the rest, is herstory!