Religion & Theology (& should we respect beliefs)

[heretic5]

He might have been telling porkies. I hear he's got a bit of previous there.

Porkies? Hm. I'm guessing from the context that the word "porkies" means "lies". That's an interesting choice. I wonder: why not "dogies", or why not "horsies"? Well, the choice was probably made so long ago that we cannot now interview the people who made that choice in order to understand their reason. Or is the reason already well known in Shetland?

 

However that might be, Ghostrider alluded to an interesting aspect of the situation of being in a VR, to wit: are all actions always premeditated by the originator of a particular VR in the layers of VRs? Some of our VRs, for instance Dungeons and Dragons, use a pseudo random number generator instead of (or in addition to premeditation) to determine the outcome of a particular situation. So it it seems at least possible that a similar arrangement might be in operation in this seeming VR, yes?

[Fjool]

Porkies? Hm. I'm guessing from the context that the word "porkies" means "lies". That's an interesting choice. I wonder: why not "dogies", or why not "horsies"?

I believe that it's rhyming slang, from 'pork pies'. As far as I'm aware, we don't eat dog or horse pies in this country

 

Ahem.. anyway.

[Evil Inky]

I believe that it's rhyming slang, from 'pork pies'.

I've never understood why 'pork pies' are 'lies', but 'mince pies' are 'eyes'. Are we off-topic yet ?

[north]

From the Shetland News website:

 

who was only recently released from jail, pleaded guilty to resisting arrest, assaulting a policeman and trying to headbutt him and causing a religiously aggravated breach of the peace, at Lerwick Sheriff Court yesterday (Monday).

 

Never run into that charge before. Maybe God made him do it?

[Malcolm]

I believe that it's rhyming slang, from 'pork pies'.

I've never understood why 'pork pies' are 'lies', but 'mince pies' are 'eyes'. Are we off-topic yet ?

 

 

What about the poor minister with dyslexia..............For years he worshipped Dog!

[greenman]

GOD. save me from your followers

[Guest posiedon]

GOD. save me from your followers

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mahatma Gandhi.

 

So very true

[TeeAyBee]

GOD. save me from your followers

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mahatma Gandhi.

 

So very true

 

There's a fantastic quote from "Fiddler on the Roof" - Yente the Matchmaker said "If the Messiah came to earth today, people would break his windows" (not word for word as it has been a few years).

[Guest posiedon]

As a Secular Humanist, this is why I get angry about religions.

 

What is a Secular Humanist you might ask? A Secular Humanist is a person who has a naturalistic worldview. Whose worldview is free of supernatural and mystical elements? In a nutshell, I do not believe in a God or gods. Tarot cards, horoscopes, or any of the other "supernatural" crap that is on offer. Oh and the only "true spirits" are the ones that come in bottles marked "40% proof"

As a Humanist I am an individual who does not need to think like every other Humanist on every issue, and it is not my wish that we should all “conformâ€.

 

My road to becoming a Humanist started long ago aged around 11. I have always been skeptical and inquisitive. So when my questions about god or the bible were unanswered or answered with, "God works in mysterious ways," well that just wasn’t good enough!

As I became more educated I learned of the many other religions and many other ways to view the world. With this knowledge I was forced to conclude, they can't all be right.

 

So who has got it right? Talk to a Christian and they will tell you, they have the one true path to God. Ask a Muslim, they will tell you that they have the one true path, etc.... So I read the bible, and the more I read, the more I was appalled at the cruelty and spite of the God of the Old Testament. But at least with this God, when you died that was the end.

 

Then the New Testament God comes along, and he appears to be even more of a sadistic despot, this new improved version wants you to burn in hell for eternity, if you should choose not to worship him, it, or her, well I thought to myself….If this Deity so badly needs to be worshiped by us mere mortals, that it has to use the old “carrot and stick†trick (heaven and hell) it can kiss my muckle sphincter. or strike me down for saying it, unsurprisingly, neither occurred and we all know why.

 

So, that’s briefly how I came to be an Atheist, oops maybe I shouldn’t use the A word, now all the “believers†on shetlink will think I have little horns and a forked tail, well you can relax folks he's not real either.

 

Now, this is the question I am often asked when debating Christians.

 

If you’re an Atheist why do you care about religion?

 

Well where do I start? I could write a book on it. Some, but not all of the following, relate to Christianity in all its 3,000 guises, some to other religions, I don’t discriminate, I dislike them all equally.

 

All religions subjugate women; All religions are obsessed with sex and sexuality; The big three (the Abrahamic religions) All believe, we were made perfect in Gods image, but then carry out genital mutilation on their children, (the Christians, not so much in the UK) but certainly in the USA they do.

 

Religions try to stop scientific research, i.e. stem cell research that could put an end to suffering for millions of people.

Religions interfere with a woman’s right to an abortion, even if carrying the child full term puts her life at risk.

Religions think they should have special privileges outside the law, like being allowed to discriminate against gays and women, or performing Halal and kosher

Slaughter of animals, where the animal has its throat cut while conscious, and is then left to bleed to death.

 

The big three religions will all tell you they get their morals from their particular “good bookâ€.

Well excuse me! I’ve read the bible, and if this is where people derive their moral code for life, then Zeus help us.

 

Religions tell people what they can and can’t eat, what they can and can’t drink, what they can and can’t wear, who they can and who they can’t associate with, who they can and who they can’t have sex with, in short, religions are run by oppressive control freaks.

 

Religions rob the exchequer (and so, me and you) of £millions a year due to their undeserved tax exempt status.

 

Look at the dangerous situation the world is in today, largely due to the fact, that arguably the most powerful man on earth thinks he has conversations with God.

These are but a few of the reasons why I care about religion, I could go on..............Maybe another time.

End of rant (for now)

 

(Religion) with or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion"

Steven Weinberg.

[ArabiaTerra]

A quote which admirably illustrates the above post (which I support 100%).

 

Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported. It produces no wheat, no corn; it ploughs no land; it fells no forests. It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver. ~Robert G. Ingersoll

[MJ]

Anyone know how to search the UN for documents?

 

It's really annoying, I was involved before Sep 11 in a scheme to try and encourage children and young people to look into their own beliefs and spirituality. It was really interesting, but when I cleared the filing cabinet, it went. I wish I could quote so much of it now.

I'm not part of any organised religion, I pick and choose. I feel happy in any temple I've visited (though some christian churches can be a little intimidating) and group prayer or meditation is a really powerful thing.

I wish we had learnt about other religions in school, I only learnt about Christianity and being the only child who never attended church I found it really interesting.

The one time I had attended church, my gran vowed never to take me again after piping up "Granny why's that man swearing?"

Children who are brought up without a faith are more likely to fall into substance abuse, crime and suffer long term mental illness. Faith offers a security, belonging and answers. It doesn't have to be the big organised religions either. The wonders done in rehabilitation of young offenders in "shamanistic" retreats is amazing.

[ladyfootballer]

This is how Carl Sagan sums it up.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnggpJ7EL18

[Guest posiedon]

MJ

Children who are brought up without a faith are more likely to fall into substance abuse, crime and suffer long term mental illness.

And you have evidence of this?

Our prisons are so full of "religious" criminals they have a need for prison "chaplains" Not provided (paid for) by the Church, but by us the taxpayer.

 

I won't go into the child rape that is carried out behind the veil of Catholisism, as it's already well known, but here's a nice little story for you (I can post lots more if you like)

Vicar kicked wife in the face as they rowed over what to have for dinner.

 

The court was told Walker had been convicted of drink-driving in 2003, and in 2005 he was found guilty of perjury after lying on oath during a trial at Oxford Crown Court.

A Vicar.................lying under oath surely not? He obviously has no belief in any god or he couldn't have done that.

[JAStewart]

Children who are brought up without a faith are more likely to fall into substance abuse, crime and suffer long term mental illness

 

America:

 

75% Christian

10% Non-Religious/Atheist

 

American Prisons

 

90% Christian

0.2% Non-Religious/Atheist

 

(I think that the source I'm supplying for the below statistic is the correct one, but I can't view Youtube video's at work so I'm not 100% sure.)

 

I've found in my experiences that on the contrary, children brought up on strict religious faith tend to 'break away' as soon as they have been given any hint of freedom. Repressed for so long and told how 'evil' everything is, rather than just having been told the truth about things.

[Njugle]

Accepting that religion, particularly catholic/anglican/musilm style religions give religion in general a bad name; to use a point made by JAS on the schools thread that religion should come under the same scrutiny as everything else in society:

 

Religions vs Arts vs Sports

 

All divisive, all contain outrageously profiteering elements, all attract rule-breakers, all revolve around faith/belief/opinion and all are logically pointless. Should we be steering the human race away from all these fripperies of pre-industrial times and concentrating on that with tangible benefits, or should we accept that the human condition of a hard-wired necessity to 'belong' will always require organised groups of many types for folk to subscribe to? Perhaps more so in a modern otherwise fragmented society with family units becoming less prominent? Should we steer the pious toward man united? Or should we stick to using paint as a wall covering and music to convey messages?