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Religion & Theology (& should we respect beliefs)


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DePooperit

I've cut and pasted this post so that I can divide it up more easily.

Maybe you could use the quote function? Making it easier for folk to ascertain who said what.
DePooperit

Did I say that you said that it never existed? I can't find it in any of my posts, although my ability to read myself is admittedly suspect.

You did suggest as much in the paragraph below.

 

The argument for the non-existence of Nazareth remains an argument of silence - the idea that it is significant seems to me to be anachronistic, ie, to assume that it would be mentioned is an illusion created by the fact that it became famous later. At any rate, there doesn't seem to be nearly enough to justify the statement that the non-existence of Nazareth can be proven historically.

 

I know I could use the quote function, but it's a pain in the neck when you're splitting up quotes, I find.

 

I don't see that what I said there implies that Scoots was maintaining that Nazareth never existed. Since we were talking about the existence of Nazareth specifically at the time of Jesus, I would have thought the phrase 'The non-existence of Nazareth' would have been understood to mean that.

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I have to say - and it's not directly related to religion & theology - but it is sort of a...cousin is, something that REALLY gets on my wick is this garbage industry spawned in this "New Age" to

^^ How was a (alleged) guy who (allegedly) could walk on water able to leave footprints at all anyway?? :ponders:

 

As he was Jesus he was wearing those sandals commonly called "desert wellies". :lol:

 

 

I'll think you'll find discussing his foot ware does not bring you closer to finding him. It's what he said and taught.

 

"Nike air Jerusalems" to answer your question.

 

Who said I wanted to find him? Anyway, throw back to the late 70s/80s - "Jesus sandals", "Nike air Jerusalems" or "Desert Wellies"; oops, I forgot "Bible bashers" - na, whilst Jesus may well want me for a sunbeam, it ain't gonna happen. The road to salvation isn't via Christianity for me but if it works for you, then fine, but deffo not for me.

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DePooperit

I know I could use the quote function, but it's a pain in the neck when you're splitting up quotes, I find.

Christ (metaphorically :lol: ) You must have a sensitive neck, It's more of a pain when folk are trying to work out/remember who said what.

 

If you can't be ars*d using quotes at least use inverted commas, or hash marks, or something, round the bits you're responding to.

Thanks.

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shetlandpeat,

Do folk who do not have faith put as much into the community as those who do? Many do their community work to be saved themselves. If that were all to stop, who would do it?

Are you having a laugh or what?

I don't need the [false] promise of a reward for being a good person, nor the fear of hell to make me a good person, I just evolved this way.

 

What is this "community" work of which you speak? Anything the "religious" do always involves an element of proselytizing, they don't do owt for nowt. Ever.

 

There are many groups that do things for the community that have a religious bias, many hospices and help groups.

 

Oh, we are not talking about you here. Though you may be a self declared good person, it may not be the opinion of others, just an observation.

 

You do know what community work is, I am sure of that, it was a question I asked for some sort of answer, how are folks to learn anything if those who think they know are above being asked these sorts of questions?

 

Perhaps you could practice your proselytism on others who may not quite get it as you do, open forum, remember?

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Guest CyprusPluto

People can believe whatever they want, it's nothing to do with me.

 

I respect that every individual has a right to believe what they want, they also can ask you to listen to and try to understand they beliefs. You're right is you don't have to listen and can politely tell them to leave and peddle their wares elsewhere.

 

I had some religious folk asking me to understand their belief that god created everything. I told them I think they're wrong an that evolution is the key. I also told them that the human race is too intelligent to be an indigenous species of this planet and that we therefore must be an alien race that has simply inhabited the planet. I respected their beliefs and vice versa.

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There are many groups that do things for the community that have a religious bias, many hospices and help groups.

As I have stated earlier, all such activity can be carried out without such a supernatural framework, and, if so executed, would be more effective. Religious affiliation alienates and excludes many, but secular affiliation does not.

 

... it was a question I asked for some sort of answer, how are folks to learn anything if those who think they know are above being asked these sorts of questions?

You could apply that to yourself. You regularly ignore direct questions. Perhaps others, having noticed this, feel that your questions should be treated similarly?

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This is not about me either, if you can go beyond your views on someone and still get on with them in other ways, I am sure there will be more dialogue.

Folk seem to prove stuff by making others perhaps look inferior to themselves. Instead o heading straight for the jugular folk should try to remove the personal insults and attacks.

 

I wonder why folk step over people in the street yet others seem to help, sadly, the others are the good folk from the skool house or someone who may have a religious.

 

So in an ideal world the good community will be the helpers throughout our community who do not follow a faith. Until that ideal, it seems the only folk who perhaps go out of their way are those on another mission, though saying that, I have never seen the Buddhists at Kings Cross try to recruit. Yet day in and day out they feed the homeless, for decades now.

 

If there is to be a replacement of the Faith based help groups could someone give the same level of personal care, helping another move on to their heaven?

 

 

The question raised by the title of this topic should be a yes, "press ganging folk" into their fold no. I don't see the local vicar doing the same, he just opens his doors.

 

We get mobbed by the men in black with black badges here, the Mormons are on a bit of a mission at the moment, it seems the Central North West is a training ground. If they want to follow the preachings of Joseph Smith, I do not mind, until they start to bother folk who have no interest.

They may be waiting for more riots.

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...

So in an ideal world the good community will be the helpers throughout our community who do not follow a faith. Until that ideal, it seems the only folk who perhaps go out of their way are those on another mission, though saying that, I have never seen the Buddhists at Kings Cross try to recruit. Yet day in and day out they feed the homeless, for decades now.

 

Oh, they do, just like the Salvation Army do. When I was homeless in London at 16, I remember them giving me a leaflet, stopping to chat and upon seeing I was destitute, invited me along to their gaff just off Oxford Street. Yep, they'll feed you after over an hour or two of having to sit (starving) listening to their beliefs and THEN you get the food (really nice although veggie!)

 

The Salvation Army, who do a lot of good, also take people in but if you stay in one of their hostels you get thrown out if you break their rules.

 

Many religions do it, although some more subtle than others.

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I have only ever seen them drive up with their chuck wagon, serve food and then go away, they do hand out books.

I too have been to a few temples in Southall, none have ever kept folk in the way you describe. Generally thou it tends to be the followers who will go to the temples, we used to go because we were unemployed, our apprenticeship was curtailed and the Utility we worked for was privatised.

 

I then wonder what would be the price if their were no sermon so to speak, a bit like a poor house but not run by the landed and managed by the clergy.

 

As we know, the GOV makes payments to many of these charities to do this, the rest could only come from donations and offerings. I wonder then how this faith free system would work.

 

If a non faith hostel takes you in, you would still find yourself uninvited as well if you broke the rules, it is their hostel.

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shetlandpeat

You do know what community work is, I am sure of that, it was a question I asked for some sort of answer,

It's what criminals do when the

prisons are full :)

the rest could only come from donations and offerings. I wonder then how this faith free system would work.
Do you think charity is the preserve of the credulous? If so you're even more condescending than I thought.

 

Do you know who has donated more money to charity than anyone else..........Ever?

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I think it is community pay back you mean, totally different.

 

Your second point is an example of what I have mentioned before.

 

 

 

As we know, the GOV makes payments to many of these charities to do this

 

Unless you know different, although there has been cut back so they want more for less.

 

em, I do try to answer questions, especially PMs :wink: you may just be as guilty, as many others.

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DePooperit,

 

If I may ask, while I'm wading through your replies, what are your beliefs? Do you follow the teachings of the New Testament, acknowlege the "legitimacy" of Paul as founder of Christianity, and can you direct me to any accredited, documented sources to corroborate his account of events, or for the Bible being an untainted direct source of information for events during the life of the (alleged) man called Jesus, and the (alleged) message he had to pass on?

 

As I said earlier, I do, in fact, respect all religious beliefs, so long as they do likewise and don't try shoving it down folks' throats OR sneaking it into our kids by really quite backhanded - and, on occasion, repugnant - methods. I have a lifelong friend who is a Jesuit scholar. A top bloke, if ever there was one. Believe it or not, we also have a rabbinical mutual friend, who is also a great person. Despite all our differences, we have been friends for almost 30 years now, and know each other too well to let anything so ridiculous as religion or doctrine change how we view one another as human beings.

 

That's the world I hope for. Filled with humanists, not religious divides, bigotry and sectarianism.

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em, I do try to answer questions, especially PMs :wink: you may just be as guilty, as many others.

I am well aware that you try to shift discussions you find uncomfortable to the PM arena, and I have certainly ignored much of the prattle which has arrived from you in my inbox. I think, however, that you will not be able to find any example where I have not replied to direct public questions from you or anybody else. Can you prove me wrong?

 

As for the amazing concept that organisations need to be religious or everything would fold? Try thinking about MSF, AgeConcern, Oxfam,...

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