Ghostrider Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I am in favour of rehab in Shetland. But what you fail to realise is that the problem is acute before the services are looking at rehab on this scale. So what if it is? If there's demand from enough users to get off whatever they're on to support a facility of whatever size is being proposed, *if* indeed one is being proposed, lets get on with it, and good luck to them. That can only be good for everyone all round, right? Shock, horror that Shetland, we, us, could possibly have a number of users to justify a rehab facility of any size, succeeds in doing absolutely nothing, and neither does panic mongering that an increase in use of a specific substance (Heroin specifically in your stated example) will "kill" Shetland. We may be unique, but we're not fragile, substance use, including Heroin has been around for quite some time, it's not killed anywhere else, changed them perhaps, but that's all. We will be no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkstarIII Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 It is no slight to shetland if there is a requirement for a drug rehab centre...although I am not saying there is.... but at least it is addressing the problem should their be one... instead of sticking their heads in the sand and hoping that it will all go away... maybe if there is something done to help people who are on drugs and want to help themselves there might be less suicides too... Making drug users outcasts is not the answer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^^ the last two posts I consider very good input! Theres too much sensationalist dirge being sung in some posts! If there is an issue with hard drugs such as heroin in Shetland ... which is becoming an issue in many peoples minds! Absolutely yes, there is a need to have a drug rehabilitation unit based in Shetland! It's head in the sand thinking that there can't be! To follow on from my previous posts ... the sending of local 'offenders' "off Isle" and into the Scottish mainland prison system has only exacerrated and compounded the issues. To continue doing so, even as a means of "cleaning an individual up", will only further slice Shetland into a dichotomous state ostracising hard drug users from mainstream society. Education - real education into the effects of heroin, not only physically and mentally but also socially needs to be ingrained into our youth. I also don't mean the standard rhetoric thats been rattling about for decades ... "Drugs will kill! Just say no!" ... everyones quite aware that "illegal" drugs don't kill anymore frequently as any "legal" drug ... but the rotting, for want of a better word, is plainly visible in a short space of time. (sorry but I am going to use alcohol as a rotting comparison here!) unlike alcohol which can take decades to eat away at a person (which is perhaps why it is such a socially accepted drug?) Methadone programmes are known not to work 100%. The outlying problem is society itself! This sort of problem has to be curtailed at the sociatal level .. throwing heroin substitutes at folk "willing" to take them is not the answer. People go back out into the wide world and are confronted with the same problems, issues, friends as they did before! It's not like people can just up and move to the other end of town in Shetland either .... the place is just too small for that. How easy in Shetland is it to find a whole new angle on society? Not very ... and this is where answers need to be sought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkstarIII Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Shetland is too small for issues not to be dealt with... and for heads to be stuck in the sand... situations only become worse until the remedy becomes enforced.... and that wont do anyone any good... Just because it is a smaller community... doesnt mean to say that normal problems of society are not there, it would be arrogant to think otherwise... Shetland is a fantastic place full of wonderful and interesting people, there is going to be shall we say... a more troubled element... but that element cant be ignored otherwise... it might cause the sufferance of all... There is nothing worse than someone turning round and saying...well I am like this because no one was willing to help, or there was no help available... Everyone deserves a life and to be happy.... turning backs and not having that help available is criminal in itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 the rotting, for want of a better word, is plainly visible in a short space of time. (sorry but I am going to use alcohol as a rotting comparison here!) unlike alcohol which can take decades to eat away at a person (which is perhaps why it is such a socially accepted drug?) If alcohol were routinely produced for the black-market, the 'rotting' effect would be marked and severe indeed. Blindness and death are both quite likely results of drinking badly produced moonshine. Conversely, pure heroin without the adulterants and contaminants, has far less in the way of long term health problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomblands Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Methadone programmes are known not to work 100%. The outlying problem is society itself! This sort of problem has to be curtailed at the sociatal level .. throwing heroin substitutes at folk "willing" to take them is not the answer. People go back out into the wide world and are confronted with the same problems, issues, friends as they did before! It's not like people can just up and move to the other end of town in Shetland either .... the place is just too small for that. Not really directly related to the thread, but I was under the (blinkered...I guess) impression that Methadone programmes were generally short term to wean the user off of the harder stuff and off of the drug for good. But I recently read about a user who has been on a Methadone programme for 18 years. Where is the line between drug addiction help/treatment and a state funded addiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortio Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I dont think that some people turning into vigilantes is really the answer... is it... ????? are you suggesting that perhaps it is the answer? your emphasis on question marks suggests you feel this should be considered. YES a world without drugs and alcohol would be more favourable, there would be less child abuse, rape, murder, and domestic violence... what?? 8O you are the daily mail and i claim my £5. I dont agree with drugs, I think that they are distructive... phrases like that just make me sigh and wonder if it's really worth replying. it's that blanket approach to all drugs (and i know you went on to say you didn't consider cannabis to be destructive, surely that kind of contradicts your first statement?) that really isn't helpful, particularly when it's stated in such a way. just what opinions do drugs have that you find so objectionable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I know piles of people who take drugs the whole time and have never done any other type of crimes in their lives. They work normal jobs with no trouble whats so ever. Should they be classed as criminals if they some times like to partake of substances which the goverment has banned, it surley should be their choice, being classed as a criminal is helping no one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 taken from a BBC article... CannabisThe debate over the use of cannabis in medicine is highly controversial and emotive. Supporters of the drug claim it has wide-ranging benefits, but opponents of legalisation say it is a potentially dangerous substance that can actually damage health. There is scientific evidence to suggest that cannabis may be useful in treating a wide range of conditions. And wide-scale trials testing the safety and efficacy of cannabis extracts are currently underway in the UK and elsewhere. For instance, cannabis appears to be able to help reduce the side effects of chemotherapy treatment given to cancer patients. The drugs used to treat cancer are among the most powerful, and most toxic, chemicals used in medicine. They produce unpleasant side effects, such as days or weeks of vomiting and nausea after each treatment. Cannabis is an anti-emetic, a drug that relieves nausea and allows patients to eat and live normally. Extracts also seem to benefit patients suffering from multiple sclerosis, stopping muscle spasms, and reducing tremors. In the USA, the Food and Drug Administration has approved the oral use of dronabinol, a cannabis derivative, for people with Aids. There is evidence that cannabis may stimulate the appetites of Aids patients with wasting disease. It may also help relieve the pain of menstrual cramps and childbirth. Campaigners claim the drug is useful in treating depression and other mood disorders. Cannabis analogues have been shown to prevent seizures in epileptic patients when given in combination with prescription drugs. The drug can also help in the treatment of patients suffering from glaucoma, one of the commonest causes of blindness, by reducing fluid pressure in the eye. Claims have also been made for its use in treating asthma, strokes, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, alcoholism and insomnia. However, opponents of the use of cannabis point to the fact that it damages the ability to concentrate. There are other side effects of the drug, but they vary considerably and are highly unpredictable, partly because cannabis has more than 400 active ingredients. A report by the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee recommended the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes. Doctors are doubtful But the British Medical Association (BMA) did not give the report 100% support. The BMA believes only cannabinoids - part of the cannabis plant - should be used in medicine. Cannabinoids are the active ingredients of cannabis. The BMA says crude cannabis contains many toxic ingredients as well. It is also worried about how cannabis will be prescribed, saying that smoking the drug is harmful to health. It wants to see the development of "targeted medicines" using cannabinoids. The government says it will not consider legalising cannabis for medical use until clinical trials had been completed. and taken from another BBC report a couple fo days ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6070038.stm about some fo the side effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 To answer an earlier question, methadone is NOT to wean folk off heroin. It is a longterm replacement for it along with salbutamol. The big danger to heroin addicts is when they think they are coming off smack and meth both, then have a wee toot or jack up a dose they woiuld have used regularly before going on the programme. THAT's when they O.D., for the most part. And it was a doctor and a former addict, clean three years now advising ands counselling others and STILL on methadone, that told me all this. Cos I used to think like that as well that meth was a reduction porgramme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannock Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 To answer an earlier question, methadone is NOT to wean folk off heroin. It is a longterm replacement for it along with salbutamol. The big danger to heroin addicts is when they think they are coming off smack and meth both, then have a wee toot or jack up a dose they woiuld have used regularly before going on the programme. THAT's when they O.D., for the most part. And it was a doctor and a former addict, clean three years now advising ands counselling others and STILL on methadone, that told me all this. Cos I used to think like that as well that meth was a reduction porgramme. Where do's the salbutamol come in to the methadone programme and what do's it do for the patient. I always thought it was for astma suffers myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Ermmm... Ahem... Yes... Ummm... Dratandblast! Here was I trying to show how clever and learne and I am and I would have got away with it too if it wasnt for you pesky kids! I did of course mean Subutex, however my subconscious got in the way (as I use Salbutamol meself). For Asthma, no for heroin. Subutex is the prescruiptive tablet that apparently can work better than methadone. (YouTube is now no longer just a video dsharing website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Methadone programmes are known not to work 100%. The outlying problem is society itself! This sort of problem has to be curtailed at the sociatal level .. throwing heroin substitutes at folk "willing" to take them is not the answer. People go back out into the wide world and are confronted with the same problems, issues, friends as they did before! It's not like people can just up and move to the other end of town in Shetland either .... the place is just too small for that. How easy in Shetland is it to find a whole new angle on society? Not very ... and this is where answers need to be sought! Apologies for re-quoting myself here ... though I wondered how many had seen the Sunday papers at the weekend with the glaring headlines of the failure of methadone programmes? Methadone helps just 4%http://www.sundayherald.com/58740 Methadone fails 97% of drug addictshttp://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1599132006 ^^ seems like journalists can't add up as usual ... however, the point being that this acute failure IMHO, as I have stated, is down to the underlying sociatal issues that users still have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pert Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 I'm all in favour of giving Subbuteo to heroin addicts, though the twisted swines would probably flick-to-kick when it wasn't their turn........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkstarIII Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 taken from a BBC article... CannabisThe debate over the use of cannabis in medicine is highly controversial and emotive. Supporters of the drug claim it has wide-ranging benefits, but opponents of legalisation say it is a potentially dangerous substance that can actually damage health. (BOLLOX) soz! There is scientific evidence to suggest that cannabis may be useful in treating a wide range of conditions. And wide-scale trials testing the safety and efficacy of cannabis extracts are currently underway in the UK and elsewhere. Boot time! For instance, cannabis appears to be able to help reduce the side effects of chemotherapy treatment given to cancer patients. Nice one! The drugs used to treat cancer are among the most powerful, and most toxic, chemicals used in medicine. They produce unpleasant side effects, such as days or weeks of vomiting and nausea after each treatment. Cannabis is an anti-emetic, a drug that relieves nausea and allows patients to eat and live normally. Extracts also seem to benefit patients suffering from multiple sclerosis, stopping muscle spasms, and reducing tremors. In the USA, the Food and Drug Administration has approved the oral use of dronabinol, a cannabis derivative, for people with Aids. There is evidence that cannabis may stimulate the appetites of Aids patients with wasting disease. thats a good thing! It may also help relieve the pain of menstrual cramps and childbirth. GIMME SOME! Campaigners claim the drug is useful in treating depression and other mood disorders. Thats a good thing.. get the greenhouse set up! Shetlands depressed lol! Cannabis analogues have been shown to prevent seizures in epileptic patients when given in combination with prescription drugs. The drug can also help in the treatment of patients suffering from glaucoma, one of the commonest causes of blindness, by reducing fluid pressure in the eye. Claims have also been made for its use in treating asthma, strokes, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, alcoholism and insomnia. However, opponents of the use of cannabis point to the fact that it damages the ability to concentrate. BOLLOX.. helps concentrate otherwise why do so many poets/singer/songwriters come up with some amazing stuff????? There are other side effects of the drug, but they vary considerably and are highly unpredictable, partly because cannabis has more than 400 active ingredients. A report by the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee recommended the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes. Doctors are doubtful because it unfortunately affects the ability to make decisions! hahahahahaha But the British Medical Association (BMA) did not give the report 100% support. The BMA believes only cannabinoids - part of the cannabis plant - should be used in medicine. Cannabinoids are the active ingredients of cannabis. The BMA says crude cannabis contains many toxic ingredients as well. It is also worried about how cannabis will be prescribed, saying that smoking the drug is harmful to health. Oh for goodness sake... they will tax it! It wants to see the development of "targeted medicines" using cannabinoids. The government says it will not consider legalising cannabis for medical use until clinical trials had been completed. and taken from another BBC report a couple fo days ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6070038.stm about some fo the side effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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