TeeAyBee Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Does that include folk who cannot pay their council tax cos it has gone up so much to help pay for prisons... You can be sent to prison for not paying... How much, then should some one who has been wrongly convicted be compensated for your breach of their basic human rights??? How much would you expect...? Okay, what's *your* solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 make them all sit around a table with free smack and tell them how its not their fault and its all down to nasty burgers like me that made them go of the rails in the first place, then send them and their social workers on a holiday to Ibiza so they can load up on cheap Es, and have unprotected sex with teenage lasses on holiday for the first time without their folks.There problem solved they are now productive members of society, ie they have given some poor lass Hep or worse so now we need more nurses, maybe even got her up the duff so we need more social workers to look after said sprog when it is born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeAyBee Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 ^^^ Do I detect a teensy touch of sarcasm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 What me sarcastic, never, perish the thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Does that include folk who cannot pay their council tax cos it has gone up so much to help pay for prisons... You can be sent to prison for not paying... How much, then should some one who has been wrongly convicted be compensated for your breach of their basic human rights??? How much would you expect...? Being jailed for not paying taxes is even dumber than affording full "Human Rights" to prisoners. There are far more effective methods of dealing with that issue. In any case, its a double moot point, i) If, as I suggested prisoners were engaged in productive profitable work to at least part finance prisons, and prison running costs were reduced by removing all the toys and creature comforts they have just now, the burden on taxpayers can only drop which, in turn is likely to see a drop in defaulting taxpayers. ii) As far as I'm aware prisons are funded out of national taxation anyway, so their cost, whatever it is has no influence on Council Taxpayers anyway. I don't see why someone wrongly convicted should expect to be compensated additionally for loss of Human Rights on top of being compensated for loss of liberty. Loss of liberty to me is the removal of the ultimate human right, whether I have to empty my own bucket of piss every morning or not, or whether I get to sleep on a spring interior mattress with a duvet and teddy bear, or on a concrete floor with a blanket, or whether I can watch TV or have to sit and stare at the bricks as I count the condensation drops attached to each one, matters sod all. Ultimately though, wrongful convictions should not happen. Perhaps there's a far greater pressing need to worry about working on improving the justice system that makes them, than worrying about compensation for those who are victims of them. Certainly victims deserve to be compensated, but preventing victims being created is surely the greater priority. Anything else is like saying it okay to let the kids play with razor blades coz we have a massive supply of Band-Aid's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 There is a link to council tax as the CT only part pays for your local services, which could include ex prisoners being integrated back into the community. And if more is centrally being spent on prison, then the balance not paid for for community stuff by CT will surley increase or services decrease, putting more folk under pressure to not commit any crime to enhance their lives. Folk already work in prisons, if they were all locked down then others would have to do it at min wage.. A prisoner gets 2 pounds a week minimum, to buy tobacco and anything else.. If he goes and furthers his education, he may get up to 10 pounds.. If he works in laundry, may be 13 pounds.... And so on. You have to also keep in mind, prisons are really there to rehabilitate, to constantly suppress folk will just invoke hatred and a more devious criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/1008453/man-facing-heroin-charges-makes-private-appearance-in-court wonder how soon he'll be out this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 He will be out just as soon as he has completed a sentence imposed by the Sheriff, or in a higher court, and the length of the sentence will be within guidelines given to sheriffs etc. That is part of the problem with crime in the UK. We have a culture of crime and punishment rather than crime and rehabilitation so we have full jails and lots of crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 And how exactly would you propose to rehabilitate this piece of work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 And how exactly would you propose to rehabilitate this piece of work You may need to find the underlying reason why this person offends. There are many occasions where folk have been mistreated, or abused in younger years.. There will also need to be a tailored program to monitor and rehabilitate, they will also need a mentor. The person may also need to move locations, to remove themselves from the temptations, stresses and the prejudice..... Then some sort of employment will need to be got... Tis no point punnishing folk if you are not going to try and repair the damage other folk may have done. To keep folk in prison is very expensive, and some will have to be in prison... Tis far cheaper in the long run to get the person back into a mode of contribution... As long as some of these folk continue to be discriminated against they will feel that they cannot change, and will not.... And alot of folk who help ex prisoners/offenders do so offa their own back... Because there is not the ability to raise a proper tax and the system is currupt in that it does not work properly then departments will have to fight for every penny and rely on folk giving up their own time... As mentioned b4, if some controlled drugs were given then the need for dealers will end...continually blaming the user and not the supplier does not fix the problem that eventually the cash could come back and bomb us... And as drugs are available inprison, tis best in the long run to get folk offa drugs... So the crux of this is, talk to folk, help folk, support them till they change their habbits, address their mental health issues and council them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Same initials as you SP maybe some connection?are you saying he was abused as a bairn and tyhis is the reason he would rather sell smack than get a job to earn a living. what a load of bol**x you do write. Is it not possible that the offender may just be an assho*e or does that not fit with your cosy view on the world.Stop inventing excuses for every smack dealer that sells their sh*t, or I may start to form the opinion that you are sympathetic out of a common cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 ^ Tone it down, SS. You're contributing nothing but abuse to this subject. You asked a question, and SP took the time to reply. I suggest that you refrain from posting until you can keep your tone civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 ss, I do understand you have had issues in the past with folk and their drug abusing...surley the best way to deal with that is to make sure other folk can be stopped, and prevented from making more kids orphaned, mothers childless and friends mourning.. Sometimes folk can change, given the right environment. But it is up to us to create that.. Tis the folk bringing drugs into the country on mass ie millions of pounds worth at a time, like Howard Marks, not your small time dealer who needs to suplement his habbit with a few sales that need some serious time, normally they do not touch what they sell wholesale, hope you can get that... As said before, there are more folk mentally and physicaly damaged by drink, but it is legal, so I can only assume it is the legality you have issues within your complaints.. These folk normally get their money by other folk robbing, and in todays climate of cash insecurity, normal folk are buying knocked off goods.. So, one could say that the drug thing has been enhanced buy folk looking for a cheap camcorder or tv.. All of this is so interweaved that there is no one punnishment or course of action, I am sure you could see that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Shetland peat is talking a lot of sense here. We, as a nation, need to help those who are addicted to illegal drugs, alcohol and even tobacco. We need to help them get free of their addiction and then to turn their lives around so they can become what you might call good productive citizens. Of course there are people who, because of their income, are able to finance a drug habit without becoming any sort of menace to society which maybe hints that the first thing we need to do sort out a supply of drugs to addicts. We then need to spend time and money to help those who cannot finance their addiction without turning to crime and if that means free drugs to start with the so be it. Finally we need to address the problem of people who introduce new people to drugs. Maybe very long sentences in drug free prisons would be a start. But we must never give up on trying to help even the most hardened user or dealer because that will benefit us all in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharalee99 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 And how exactly would you propose to rehabilitate this piece of work You may need to find the underlying reason why this person offends. ... ... All very worthy, but I wonder would you have the same point of view, if this person had sold one of your children/wife/other close relative very dear to you, their drug of choice, and they ended up dead as a result? (*** Mod - excessive quoting trimmed ***) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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