Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I think the only way to stop Shetland going down hill is to start telling the Authority's what we know and suspect.

 

CRIME STOPPERS 0800 555 111

 

This service is free and confidential.

 

I am not sure how many of you can remeber the time that a local business person phoned the police when she suspected her daughter to be involved in dealing Ecstasty tablets. I am sure this was a big step in saving her daughters life.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Since the sixties and before the police have launched war after war on "drugs" (I put this in inverted commas because I actually only mean illegal ones) they have launched campaign after campagin to educate people (about the negative side of "drugs" at least) and yet year on year the problem gets worse.

 

IMHO the only way to solve the problem is to make them all legal. To have one list of legal substances and one list of illegal substances is always going to be hypocritical. How can it possibly be justified that smoking weed-killer is OK, but smoking weed is not (:wink:)

 

The problem does not lie with the substances themselves e.g. it is perfectly possible to lead a long, happy, healthy life as a herion addict; lots of first world war veterans did just that having become addicted to it as a medicine in the trenches. The problem lies with the lifestyles which people get into once they start using. Its a lifestyle of ups and downs dealing in a black market without a regulated supply from a reliable source. These problems start to become real problems when the substances are highly addictive and the need for a regulated suppply becomes greater.

 

Out of all the bad points surrounding illegal substance use (health effects etc. ) there is not one which is not either created by, or made worse by, the law as it stands and the black market that it creates.

 

For the reasons Fjool says, for as long as there is a demand for illegal substances there will be a supply of illegal substances. If we don't take our head out the sand and try an approach different from the one thats been failing for the last 50 years then I can assure you all that Shetland WILL go exactly same way as Fraserborough and Aberdeen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the only way to stop Shetland going down hill is to start telling the Authority's what we know and suspect

 

Oh yes please. Let's all live in a culture of suspicion and snitching.

 

Start by assuming people are up to no good and report them whatever. This way we can double the amount of work the police must undertake; dealing with each and every do-gooder's 'suspicions' must really entertain our otherwise bored police force.

 

While we're at it, why not just make drug-testing a mandatory part of everyone's week? We could also install cameras in folks living rooms, microphones on their lapels. How about we start getting people to file a weekly 'flight plan' detailing where we intend to be, what we intend to do and who we intend to do it with? This is the only way to be sure that nobody is breaking the law at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with da ness tattie man.

 

Drugs are dangerous and illegal for a reason and telling the relevant authorities what you know is the best way of trying to stop the young dying needlessly.

 

How many times have we read about drugs deaths following the individual taking only one tablet , or trying the drug for the first time - in comparision to a death occurring following one alcoholic drink ??

Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with da ness tattie man.

 

Drugs are dangerous and illegal for a reason and telling the relevant authorities what you know is the best way of trying to stop the young dying needlessly.

 

How many times have we read about drugs deaths following the individual taking only one tablet , or trying the drug for the first time - in comparision to a death occurring following one alcoholic drink ??

 

Its a myth that lots of people die from takeing one pill etc! Its just makes good headlines for the newspapers.

 

For example from the web site http://www.talktofrank.com/azofdrugs/E/Ecstasy.aspx

 

An estimated 500,000 people take ectasy every weekend and there have been over 200 ecstasy related deaths in the UK since 1996. Sounds a lot safer than eating peanuts for the first time as I bet more folk in the Uk have died from that than ecstasy!

 

Most of the ecstacy deaths have been due to water on the brain as people have drunk to much liquids and there body is not expelling it due to the pill, so technically its the water that kills them!

 

The main problem is when people have no idea what they are getting as its illegal!

 

I say legalise it all and tax it. Think without the police, prisons and courts having to deal with drug offences all the other things they could be dealing with. People should have the right to take drugs if they want, most people wouldent as just like most folk dont smoke etc. But they should have the choice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
How many times have we read about drugs deaths following the individual taking only one tablet , or trying the drug for the first time

 

About one time in several million uses actually. The fact that you hear about something is only a symptom of the emphasis given by the media. It's not an accurate reflection of the true situation.

 

If a substance is produced for the black-market, its purity is questionable. How can someone be sure what they are taking? If alcohol were produced like this then we'd see far higher incidences of people dying or being blinded, by low-quality booze.

 

More than 45 people dead from toxic blend of alcohol

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=September&x=200609141807001xeneerg0.3046839

 

Never mind that we've all heard of people who have had a single drink of alcohol and then stepped out infront of a bus by mistake, or fallen from a balcony, or passed out and drowned in their own vomit. Neither does the fact that alcohol also kills people slowly, over many years, render it 'safe'.

 

I refer you to the House of Commons Science and Technology Comission report 'Drug classification: making a hash of it?' published 2005-2006.

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/1031/1031.pdf

 

Here we clearly see that alcohol is considerably more dangerous and damaging to health and society than cannabis, ecstacy, LSD, ketamine, and many, many others. It proves just how confused and misguided our current approach to drug classification is.

 

The fact that people talk about drugs and alcohol indicates just how far our perceptions of the true situation really are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To use my new word of the day "postulate"

 

I postulate that there are comparable number of deaths each year between people taking "tablets" than people drinking "moonshine"

 

I am not saying that you shouldnt report what you know.. but targetting the user isntead fo the dealers is wrong.. as for every user you arrest i postulate another 3 or 4 are around the corner.. and the same is often said about dealers by police that are involved in this daily.

 

I really do think that the only way to get some form of control on this is by making it legal in the same way drinking is. Yes this wil not cure the issue 100% but it will make things a lot safer for those who are going to experiment.. and as Fjool mentioned. it will mean the money is going to the goverment rather than terrorists.. all though you could say both are as bad as each another.. but thats for another debate. This money can help fund research into drug abuse, help fund rehab units.. this can help fund finding a solution to the mess.. instead of money beign taken out of other taxes.

 

Dam fjool beat me to it :x :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

IF IS A GREAT WORD!

 

 

Unfortunately we are living in a country which offers so much emphasis on freedom of choice ideas, and strong opinions on the lets legalize all the drugs theory, when the reality is, this will take years to pass through our government.

 

So this leaves us with today and tomorrow with the laws we must abide with until they change, if indeed they ever will.....and the big question!!

 

What happens now...how do we stop the deterioration of an Island being affected more so with class A drugs, as many people in this forum have highlighted?

 

Indeed if anyone qualified can offer evidence on the difference between Alcohol and illegal drugs one being better than the other I look forward to your reply, I am not qualified in this field and only offer my opinion in this forum as a person who has witnesses people who have been led astray and fallen victim to Heroin and crack, it is so sad, some have nothing left but their endless misery in chasing their next fix, some are less lucky and left life through many different circumstances, as someone highlighted you can live a perfectly normal life on heroin this statement amazes me, WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TOO!!!!

[/b]

Link to post
Share on other sites
this will take years to pass through our government.

 

And this is precisely because there is so much sprootle spoken by those who haven't bothered to look into the subject. They've decided that they know the true situation based on the half-baked misinformation presented and refuse to consider that perhaps things aren't as black-and-white as they think.

 

Indeed if anyone qualified can offer evidence on the difference between Alcohol and illegal drugs one being better than the other I look forward to your reply

 

I have already provided this in the form of the House Of Commons report I linked to above. I encourage you to read this and appreciate that it has been produced by a panel of very well respected professionals in the subject. It is not pro-drug; it is realistic about the dangers involved and the failings of our current policies.

 

you can live a perfectly normal life on heroin this statement amazes me, WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TOO!!!!

 

Who the hell would want to drink and smoke? Who would want to get their tongue/lips/eyebrows/foreskin pierced, or climb Everest, or drive their car fast? Who on earth would like to have tattoos on their face, or juggle flaming clubs, or be fired from a cannon?

 

The point is not about whether you personally cannot see why people do things; the point is that some people do do these things. It is not useful to draw arbitrarty lines in the sand: this substance is ok, this one not. The law makes some of these things more dangerous than they are and then it uses this danger as an excuse for keeping them illegal - it's a skewed and unhelpful situation leading to much confusion and misery.

 

Sure, nobody would choose to be a heroin addict but the actual fact is that being a heroin addict is a much smaller problem if the supply is readily available and well regulated. I've seen many nicotine addicts (was one myself) get very unpleasant to be around when their supply is removed - otherwise they just function like normal people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is quite true that you can live a long and productive life and be involved in the consumption of opiates. As has been pointed out there is evidence that many did do that after the two wars following on from addictions to morphine and tincture of morphine available over the counter from chemists.

 

One thing I will say is fjool is absolutely right that there should be no distinction made between any "drug" that enters your body - which for clarification reads: any article, other than food, intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or other animals. So that includes alcohol all you non-believing "Ooh but thats legal" types! :roll:

 

If alcohol were to only be discovered and or invented today it would immediately be classified as a Class A narcotic. It's only that it is ingrained in our culture from as far back as history goes that we accept it and are inplicit in its use as a "legal" substance. It also makes some nice readies for the Government.

 

Alcohol:

 

1) Lost inhibitions

2) Lose of motor functions

3) Imparied speech

4) Impaired vision

5) Addictive both mentally and physically

 

This list can go on ....

 

The mantra spouted as the official line as fjool points out is not effective in the slightest - is misleading - and is just plain not working!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately we are living in a country which offers so much emphasis on freedom of choice ideas, and strong opinions on the lets legalize all the drugs theory, when the reality is, this will take years to pass through our government.

 

Trust me when I say that I am not the kind of person that takes the human rights/freedom of choice arguement on this one. I gave my arguements for legalisation in my first post and they have been repeated by others since. Safety is the main one.

 

As for a timeframe, I always say that where there is a will there is a way. If the people and the politicians want to make it happen, then they could make it happen in 6 months. I don't think things will change that much in Shetland in that time.

 

Indeed if anyone qualified can offer evidence on the difference between Alcohol and illegal drugs one being better than the other I look forward to your reply

 

For a start any comparison should be between individual substances, not alcohol against everything else. Each substances should be judged on its own pros and cons. The only thing which puts crack in the same catagory as cannabis is the law. To talk about the effects of them both together under the simple banner of "drugs" is IMHO the main reason why the majority of the population are so fecking ignorant on the subject :!:

 

You would also need to define "better" to get an accurate answer, are you asking which gets you the most "high"?

 

you can live a perfectly normal life on heroin this statement amazes me, WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TOO!!!!

[/b]

 

Are you asking who would want to lead a normal life? Tell me, is it possible to lead a normal life "on alcohol"? Maybe you would like to rephrase the question. The point I was making is that it is not the substance itself which causes the misery. It is the lifestyle which leads to the addiction and then the misery. The lifestyle is caused by the law. If the substance is regulated properly the misery you talk about doesn't happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the key factor.. that comes out if this. is in many ways it is not the drug it's self that causes the misery.. it is when the drug/addiction to anything.. including baby without their dummy that causes the missery.

 

all that varies is the level of addiction.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, nobody would choose to be a heroin addict but the actual fact is that being a heroin addict is a much smaller problem if the supply is readily available and well regulated. I've seen many nicotine addicts (was one myself) get very unpleasant to be around when their supply is removed - otherwise they just function like normal people.

 

Valid point Fjool-however I do not regard myself a professional as I stated in this subject my professional subject is one quiet different.

 

This does not restrict me to voice my opinion only, in an open forum, in which is evedant to see, a subject that raises tones from individuals with a strong view, different to my own.

 

I read and analyze and 99% of the time think about whether I agree or not, others can choose what them do themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
every angle must be explored in the fight against this evil drug...

 

when you start off by attributing a moral alleigance to inanimate objects the debate is not going anywhere.

 

 

I think the only way to stop Shetland going down hill is to start telling the Authority's what we know and suspect.

 

ok, i suspect da ness tattie man is a heroin dealer who hangs about at primary schools plying his abominable trade, and this whole frothing concerned citizen routine is just an elaborate ruse. i may well not be right but better safe than sorry, eh? and if it saves just one young life etc... :roll:

 

this approach is likely to do little more than give busybodies an opportunity to pat their self-satisfied heads, create an atmosphere of mistrust and waste a lot of police time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...