Twerto Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Or fries.... iTs fooken CHIPS... if i wanted fries i would be wanting the little bits of batter n stuff that is left floating aound your deep fat frier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanchief Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Don't trust anyone that can't say aluminium properly!! Quote from a Royal visit to my pan making factory: ( you must say this fast) Are you aluminiuming them my man? No, I'm copperbottoming them ma'am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Being uptight about the English language is utterly pointless. The reason it's such a great language is that it grows and adapts. We have many words for the same thing and this is a good thing. New words are a bonus, new ways of expressing yourself are to be welcomed. It's these extra words that make poetry and word-play so powerful. The French go completely overboard and actually regulate which words can and cannot be part of the language. English is an inclusive language and grows with each passing day. Some words drop from favour, others take their place. The English we speak today is different from the English of Shakespear's time, and different again in each part of the world where it's spoken. We have the "Queen's" English, but also a whole raft of dialects and sub-languages (rhyming slang, for example) which contribute to the depth. So.... no point getting bothered about the inclusion of Americanisms. It used to bother me but not once I realised that it's just part of the way the English language works. I use the words I choose and allow others to use the words they choose. So long as we understand each other, there's no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Twertish FTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Twertish FTW It would take Bletchley Park to figure out Twertish sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 see in twertish that would of come out beltchy.. which i am feeling a bit of just now after eating my bacon and egg roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifi Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Being uptight about the English language is utterly pointless. The reason it's such a great language is that it grows and adapts. We have many words for the same thing and this is a good thing. New words are a bonus, new ways of expressing yourself are to be welcomed. It's these extra words that make poetry and word-play so powerful. The French go completely overboard and actually regulate which words can and cannot be part of the language. English is an inclusive language and grows with each passing day. Some words drop from favour, others take their place. The English we speak today is different from the English of Shakespear's time, and different again in each part of the world where it's spoken. We have the "Queen's" English, but also a whole raft of dialects and sub-languages (rhyming slang, for example) which contribute to the depth. So.... no point getting bothered about the inclusion of Americanisms. It used to bother me but not once I realised that it's just part of the way the English language works. I use the words I choose and allow others to use the words they choose. So long as we understand each other, there's no problem My post was slightly tongue in cheek, but...I wouldn't say I'm particularly uptight about the English language and I'm perfectly aware that it's a living language which changes. > I totally agree with writing and poetry benefiting from fluid language. I think I'm more concerned with the possibility of losing our identity as a nation and becoming swamped by the dominance of America and general globalisation. Why should we lose our traditions to adopt America's? When I was in America a few weeks ago, I referred to lifts as elevators, but I don't see why I should use elevator here. When in Rome.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 It wasn't directed specifically at you, Fifi; just a consequence of the last few posts in general. The objection I have to 'elevator' over 'lift', is that 'lift' is more succinct; same with 'appartment' and 'flat'. In the case of 'mall', the same logic suggests that this is a better word than 'shopping center'. Fortunately none of these terms are mutually exclusive - we can have both words and, as you have demonstrated, use either to suit the circumstances. The fact that there are at least five times the number of Americans than there are British folks (who can't even agree on being British anyway) then it stands to reason that the language becomes skewed in the favour of the American culture. I'm not a great fan of loosing our culture to the Americans because, frankly, I don't share their values. I don't think we need worry about the language aspect of this, however; the issue is more fundamental than the words we use to describe things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutopian Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Thats something that grabs my goat too! As well as: red sauce / tomato sauce -> ketchup!! Um, I could be wrong but I think you'll find that ketchup isn't an americanism, or maybe I'm reading what you're driving at wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 If you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifi Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 If you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall. ROTFLMAO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifi Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 It wasn't directed specifically at you, Fifi; just a consequence of the last few posts in general..Oakily doakily. >The objection I have to 'elevator' over 'lift', is that 'lift' is more succinct; same with 'appartment' and 'flat'. In the case of 'mall', the same logic suggests that this is a better word than 'shopping center'. Fortunately none of these terms are mutually exclusive - we can have both words and, as you have demonstrated, use either to suit the circumstances..I don't really get the logic that a shorter word is better than a longer word just because it's short. Especially coming from someone who talks about the importance of diversity of language in the name of writing and poetry. And it's a different point to that raised about American influences in our language and culture, but fair enough. > The fact that there are at least five times the number of Americans than there are British folks (who can't even agree on being British anyway) then it stands to reason that the language becomes skewed in the favour of the American culture..You could say that there are great swathes of the world who speak Spanish but we don't particularly expect a lot of Spanish influences in our culture. I'm not a great fan of loosing our culture to the Americans because, frankly, I don't share their values. I don't think we need worry about the language aspect of this, however; the issue is more fundamental than the words we use to describe things.I think I probably agree with you but it just seems a bit of an insidious slide at times. But, que sera sera! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I hate it when children are called kids, which are baby goats. I dont want either for xmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Well said Fjool. I'd like to retain some of my Shetland identity for Christmas. So maybe I'd like to see some visitors or even guisers on Christmas day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I don't really get the logic that a shorter word is better than a longer word just because it's short. The reason 'mall' is a better word is because it is a word, not two. My argument is intended to hilight (sic) the fact that our version of English is not perfect, so why not adopt the parts which suit and leave those that do not? It would be foolish to adhere to a 'no American words' rule when some of them work well. I didn't intend to suggest that a short word was automatically better or preferable; the word I first used was 'succinct', which is true. Brevity is important, particularly when dealing with the day-to-day use of language but so, too, is context. With the case of 'elevator\lift', the word I prefer is 'lift', the reason I prefer it is because it is terse; elevator is more cumbersome and florid. If it suits me (in a poem perhaps, or if the context would render 'lift' confusing) then I may prefer to use 'elevator' but, on the whole, I refer to 'using the lift'. Having a single (i.e. not compound) word for a concept is useful. Having to talk about the 'box-of-elevation' or 'lifting-chamber' each time would quickly get tedious. Here is the case with 'mall'. It is not that the word is shorter, but that it is that it is a unique word for the concept. I would never suggested that one word should be be used in preference over the other; quite the reverse. I argue in favour of accepting that there will be several words for things. Just because I have my preferences over which words I use (my dialect, if you will), doesn't mean I disagree with their existence in our culture. Spanish is quite a different language, not just a regional variation. We're discussing different flavours (or 'flavors', depending on how 'English' you want to stay!) of the same language. The cross-pollenation between different languages is necessarily much slower; generally being key words for specific concepts (siesta, for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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