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It'll end wherever Putin decides it'll end, its not like there's any credible opposition outwith the Ukraine. It wouldn't have happened in the first place had the EU/NATO not been empire building, but there you go.......

The News sources will do what they do best, sensationalise and scaremonger trying to get as many people as possible wound up tighter than a cheap watch. The re-named flu that was Covid had given them two good years but has been wrung for more than its worth until it is all but run dry. How fortuitous for them that the wee mannie Putin should entirely coincidentally kick of with throwing his toys out of his pram now, otherwise viewing/reader figures surely would have slumped disastrously.

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8 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

It'll end wherever Putin decides it'll end, its not like there's any credible opposition outwith the Ukraine. It wouldn't have happened in the first place had the EU/NATO not been empire building, but there you go.......

I'm not sure cluster-bombing civilian areas and shelling nuclear power stations is a proportionate response to one of your neighbours wanting to join a free trade area.

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^ NATO has nothing to do with trade, and whether it has anything to do with someone 'wanting to join' or being sweet talked and cajoled in to joining is very much open for debate.

Yes, things have gone OTT, *if* the media are to be believed, but its not like there haven't been plenty of warning shots over the years. Every time a nation on Russia's western or south western border has crept a little closer to getting in to bed with the west, Putin has done something, but the west have taken little notice. Sooner rather than later his patience was going to run out and he was going to come out all guns blazing. Don't poke the bear......

Russia has the same paranoid fear of the west as parts of the Continent have of Russia, both with good historic reason. *If* the west had had the good sense to leave the former Soviet satellite nations well alone after the break up, Russia and the West might just have managed to ignore each other as those nations provided a 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' for both sides.

All Putin is doing right now is taking control of one of them and attempting to create his own 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' to prevent the west via the EU/NATO from making that same nation their own 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' by stealth, right on his own border.

Putin and the EU/NATO are using very different methods, his is outright short, sharp shock violence, their's is a long game of assimilation and dominance, but the end result is little different.

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10 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

It wouldn't have happened in the first place had the EU/NATO not been empire building, but there you go.......

I take it you have very little knowledge of the recent history of the Ukraine, the voting record of Ukrainians on issues such as EU and NATO membership, or even the processes and requirements for joining the EU or NATO. But there you go......

 

10 hours ago, Ghostrider said:

The News sources will do what they do best, sensationalise and scaremonger trying to get as many people as possible wound up tighter than a cheap watch. The re-named flu that was Covid had given them two good years but has been wrung for more than its worth until it is all but run dry. How fortuitous for them that the wee mannie Putin should entirely coincidentally kick of with throwing his toys out of his pram now, otherwise viewing/reader figures surely would have slumped disastrously.

And there we have it. It's all just a big conspiracy designed to distract people from Covid. FFS.

To say that a sovereign country being invaded, a million+ displaced refugees, and unknown numbers of civilian casualties is Putin "throwing his toys out of his pram" is poor form

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4 minutes ago, Ghostrider said:

Russia has the same paranoid fear of the west as parts of the Continent have of Russia, both with good historic reason. *If* the west had had the good sense to leave the former Soviet satellite nations well alone after the break up, Russia and the West might just have managed to ignore each other as those nations provided a 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' for both sides.

All Putin is doing right now is taking control of one of them and attempting to create his own 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' to prevent the west via the EU/NATO from making that same nation their own 'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone' by stealth, right on his own border.

So the Ukraine, and any other border nation, should just be left as a "'no mans land' buffer 'fighting zone'"?

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Putin is worried that western democracy infects his Russia. It’s ok for the wealthy class in Russia to go to the West and enjoy their billions. Ukraine was in danger of becoming a wealthy European nation and that would create  discontent among their friends and relations over the border. They’ve already stripped their own Russian populace of  wealth, so when they want to splash the cash they come to places like London and keep our (Tory) government in treats, parties and expensive holidays. It looks as if it’s Moldova next. He’s also threatening neutral neighbours like Sweden and Finland. And yes it looks like you either join NATO or start learning Russian.

Edited by Rasmie
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Putin and the EU/NATO are using very different methods, his is outright short, sharp shock violence, their's is a long game of assimilation and dominance, but the end result is little different.

One minor difference, Putins method involves killing thousands,if not millions of people.

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Another minor difference: one 'side' is a partnership of independent sovereign democracies who voluntarily cooperate for mutually beneficial economic, social and defence reasons, and the other 'side' isn't.

And I'd question Ghostrider's assertion that "the end result is little different." The end result for whom, and comparing what?

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