trout Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I took this from another thread to spark debate. I note however the youngsters nowadays, say they are scottish.. is that the propaganda or have they all seen braveheart, (but wasn't he norman/english?) They'll soon be wearing that French invention (the Kilt) up here as well. Kilt wearing in Shetland is something particularly that puzzles me. A fashion item at best! Each to their own and that, but cummon, since when traditionally or historically has anyone in Shetland every worn a kilt? A small example to better explain where I'm going with this: I was recently at a wedding where neither the groom or the bride had any family links or ties to the Scottish mainland. Yet the groom and the best men and his various friends and the brides friends were all wearing kilts. It was just some random tartan that they had picked out of thin air and had chosen to wear and had dressed with the full regalia that goes with it. I cringed to say the least! I'll point out that I have nothing against people wearing kilts if it's their family tartan etc. but I do however, wonder why people wear tartan if it's nothing to do with their family or where their family originated. Is it "cos they think its the thing to do or to look cool"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I guess it's as plausible as wearing a suit. Where did those originate and what do they symbolise? Some friends recently got married in Vegas on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise; they dressed as characters from Star Trek. Just as valid as any other kind of costume to get married in. Kilts exist, anyone can wear them if they want. Tradition is just a concept; not a law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Some friends recently got married in Vegas on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise; they dressed as characters from Star Trek. Just as valid as any other kind of costume to get married in. We should of dressed up as orcs and gnomes for your wedding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Absolutely Fjool. Where I was trying to steer this was to capture peoples imaginations regarding Shetland tradition. What customs and or practices do we perceive as Shetland"ic". Should we try to capture these and contain them to be past along to future generations? The flip side of that being are local traditions being lost as they become watered down with outside influences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolHaddock Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 The kilt thing is a bit odd. It's not even a particularly Scottish thing to do. They were originally only worn by Scottish people in the highland regions. A lot of the time, different families would share tartans, and the tartan would change depending on the local area. Those kilts looked absolutely nothing like the kilts people wear to weddings today, or have any real historical ties. The "new" kilt is purely a fashion item, nothing more. Traditional kilts were like big curtains that were worn around you, and were fastened by a piece of crudely forged metal at the shoulder. They were designed like this so that the highlanders could lift them if they were wading through burns or whatever, and take them off and use them as a blanket at night, especially if they were going to do battle. Effectively it was just a big, multi-purpose piece of cloth. Tartan only really became popular with the Scottish masses when George IV made a special visit to Edinburgh in the early 19th century. There is a really famous portrait of him wearing the full outfit on that occasion. So basically it's a fashion thing that stems from that visit in the 19th century. If it wisna fir that, it would be as forgotten aboot as the Picts tottie bags or whatever it was they covered themselves with. The same could be said about the 60's/70's retro fashion that's on the go eenoo. It's all based and modelled around 70's designs, but when you look closely at it it's a completely different thing. People would look ridiculous if they wore the real thing in today's context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 What is traditionally shetland though? yes we have the knitwear and fishing.. but in my opinion what has made shetland what it is. Other than Fair Isle design there isnt one thing that is purely Shetland. Shetland has been infulenced by the sea and all that comes with it weather it be traders/travelers weather or birds.. ( hmm maybe we should dress as puffins for our weddings ).. so to me Shetlands traditions is it acceptability to adopt other tradtions as it's own. not explaining myself very well. i'll come back once I've thought about it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Indeed Poolhaddock. Walking along George IV bridge in broad daylight you oft see kilts being worn by people walking up to and around The Mile. I would postulate that 10/10 of them are worn by people either in the tourist industry or a tourist as they think everyone in Scotchland wears them. Is Shetland then torn between two identities? Far flung outreach of UK / Scotland and an Island with it's own distinct surroundings and way in doing things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Just what is tradition though? At what point does something become 'traditional'? Even Up Helly Aa is a fairly recent invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 What is traditionally shetland though? Excellent question Twerto. One that I too am trying to find an answer to. Fjool. We're both playing at devils advocate it would seem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Whats the point of tradition? Is another question i would like answered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmie Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 yes and why the pipe band at up helly aa. A real mixed message there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Whats the point of tradition? I don't think tradition has a point; it just is. We humans are very keen on this idea that things happen because "that's the way it has always been done around here". Despite this, traditions evolve. Just look at the huge rolling monster of a 'tradition' that Christmas has become... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I was born and brought up in Shetland and I've always considered myself a Shetlander, a Scot and a Brit (and a European etc.) with neither taking any precendence over the other. I am proud of each. Regardless of the origin of the kilt, it is IMO still a very Scottish thing. Being a Scot, why shouldn't I were a kilt to a wedding? And, as for family tartans, as has been said, traditions change so why shouldn't tartan be included in that? Good split trout, I wanted to ask Rasmie more about this: I note however the youngsters nowadays, say they are scottish.. is that the propaganda Going back 20-odd years to my early days in school I can't remember any of my fellow pupils claiming to not be Scottish. Maybe thats because we were taught that we were Scottish. I don't understand why people don't feel Scottish, or why they think there is propanganda to make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I have it on pretty good authority (a mate of a mate drunkenly told me in da lounge) that a true Shetlander wouldn't wear a kilt. That may be true, but they look ace, girls seem to like 'em and they provide pleasing ventilation whilst doing an eightsome reel. Ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandhopper Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 The kilt (or more correctly the plaid) indeed was something like a traditional dress of the Gaelic speaking highland areas, at least until Culloden. But it is fascinating to see, haow it spread just under the "dress act", when it became familiar for the (British) highland regiments and a real fashion for the lowland nobility. Look around the National Portrait Gallery: There are probably more lowlanders wearing kilt and plaid from the time netween 1750 and 1850 than there had been highlanders who had ever worn a kilt in the centuries before. But there alsways were some distinct areas in (Todays) Scotland where the kilt and plaid were no part of the traditional dress if not unknown. As part of some kind of a military tradition, it is acceptable to enjoy a pipeband in kilts, but I can just laugh, when I see an Orkney Tartan (officially registered as a district tartan) and folks wearing a kilt in such a tartan. That's not "tradition", has absolutely nothing to do with "being Scottish" - it's just business (think of all the cruise ship tourist on their way back to the roots buying such things). The kilt represents Scotland - at least as a major focus for the global tourism industry. But I (and that's just a very private opinion) got always angry, when leads to some kind of inadaquate policy, that is for example when Visit Scotland and Scottish Heritage declare in a joint action that Historic Scotland staff should wear the kilt at any manned site. A kilt at Skara Brae or Jarlshof representing Scotland's heritage? - or is it just denying the influence of other people and their contribution to the Scotland heritage? I am just thinking about official tourist guides to national monuments in Berlin or Hamburg wearing Bavarian leather trousers and jumpers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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