Climate Change & Global Warming

[Malachy]

Lovelock seems to think the land was put here in order to keep his feet dry and because his feet are dry; sees this as proof of his theory.

 

Very well puts - sums up the strong anthropic principle vs weak anthropic principle arguments.

 

That's essentially the point that Richard Dawkins attacked Gaia theory on - that it appears to suggest purpose, where none can exist. But that was the point of Lovelock's Daisyworld model, which convincingly demonstrated that purpose isn't required for Gaia.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8624791.stm

 

This is an interesting article , I wonder if such occurences are calculated for in the computer programmed climate model predictions that scientists use , I would imagine volcanic activity is factored in , but it must be hugely variable with regard to what types of emmisions are produced where, when and in what quantities .

It also appears that their is quite a lot of this type of activity going on just now with major quakes in haiti , chile and most recent china .

Or is it more just the fact of the large number of people in every corner of the planet that we hear about it more often ?

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/blog.aspx?id=2863&blogid=445

 

Interesting , but also a bit disturbing - edgar cayce's predictions and the possibility of magnetic pole flip .

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geoffreylean/100035164/theres-bigger-trouble-ahead-from-icelandic-volcanoes-as-the-world-heats-up-scientists-warn/

 

The comments from the readers on this article are quite amusing.

[ArabiaTerra]

^^^^ Amusing?

 

Just the usual bunch of Telegraph denier/liars spouting bollox. Nothing funny there.

 

BTW, Gorgo. Edgar Cayce? Psychics? WTF? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Even Koy hasn't reverted to psychics to support his case.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

("We know that Edgar Cayce correctly predicted the stock market crash and Great Depression of 1929, the beginning of World War II, the shifting of the Earth’s magnetic poles (which scientists confirmed the beginnings of on a 2004 NOVA TV show titled, “Magnetic Stormâ€),

I dont actually believe in psychics ( well until I personally witness it) but magnetic flip and totally unpredictible variations of the strength of the planets magnetic field is a fact .

My main question - how do these computer climate change models upon which you base your theory factor in this unpredictable magnetic variation and also volcanic activity which as we are witnesing at the moment is also totally unpredictible.

So AT , are you in full agreement with geoffrey lean's statement that global warming triggers increased volcanic activity ?

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/about.html

[north]

Just the usual bunch of Telegraph denier/liars spouting bollox.

 

It must be wonderful to be so right all the time. I wish I had your confidence!

 

I just heard on the news that they are taking Al Gore to Iceland, in order to cast him into the volcano in an attempt to appease the awakened spirits. It is strongly believed, amongst those who know such things, that this will also end Global Warming (sorry, Climate change).

[ArabiaTerra]

("We know that Edgar Cayce correctly predicted the stock market crash and Great Depression of 1929, the beginning of World War II, the shifting of the Earth’s magnetic poles (which scientists confirmed the beginnings of on a 2004 NOVA TV show titled, “Magnetic Stormâ€),

I dont actually believe in psychics ( well until I personally witness it) but magnetic flip and totally unpredictible variations of the strength of the planets magnetic field is a fact .

My main question - how do these computer climate change models upon which you base your theory factor in this unpredictable magnetic variation and also volcanic activity which as we are witnesing at the moment is also totally unpredictible.

So AT , are you in full agreement with geoffrey lean's statement that global warming triggers increased volcanic activity ?

Edgar Cayce also predicted that the lost city of Atlantis would rise up again from the ocean in the late sixties!

 

The Earth's magnetic field flips every 100,000 years or so. This is recorded in the rocks. As it is a fairly regular thing, it's not exactly "totally unpredictable".

 

If you remove a few billion tons of ice from a landmass, it will cause the crust, depressed by the weight, to rebound. This crustal movement, which is already being detected by GPS sensors in Greenland, can trigger earthquakes and, presumably, would effect any nearby volcanoes, so it's not completely ridiculous to say that ice melt will cause some volcanic eruptions. I doubt, however, that this is the case in Iceland at the moment as the amount of ice involved is comparatively small. The melting of the Greenland ice cap and that of the West Antarctic ice shelf, a highly active tectonic area, on the other hand is a completely different story.

 

The computer models can't predict specific volcanic eruptions, true. But they can and do take account of the average, which is to say that on average, we get an eruption big enough to affect the climate for a couple of years about once every ten years or so. The last one was Mt Pinatubo in 1992, and before that El Chichon in 1982. We are currently overdue for another big one.

 

Just the usual bunch of Telegraph denier/liars spouting bollox.

It must be wonderful to be so right all the time. I wish I had your confidence!

That's the thing about science. It allows you to be fairly confident about things as you have actual data to back up your claims, unlike the deniers, who have nothing.

[ArabiaTerra]

("We know that Edgar Cayce correctly predicted the stock market crash and Great Depression of 1929, the beginning of World War II, the shifting of the Earth’s magnetic poles (which scientists confirmed the beginnings of on a 2004 NOVA TV show titled, “Magnetic Stormâ€),

See, I think that this is where you are going wrong with regards to this whole debate, Gorgo. You've quoted the claim made on that web site verbatim. Have you actually done any research to find out exactly what EC said regarding the crash or the start of WW2 and when he said it?

 

If you do, I expect you'll find that he said some vague nonsense which, after the fact, could be interpreted as predictions. And anyone with a basic understanding of economics and the characteristics of market bubbles could have predicted a crash in the late twenties/early thirties a good couple of years before it actually happened. Similarly, anyone with a basic familiarity with Hitler's speeches, writing and policies could have predicted, once the Nazi's seized power, that they would eventually lead to war in the late thirties. Vince Cable predicted the current financial crises. Nobody is hailing him as a great psychic, just that he had a good understanding of basic economics and recognised the signs of a bubble.

 

What I'm trying to say, is that when you come across claims like this, which invoke the supernatural, or go against the received scientific wisdom, you need to follow them up and check their veracity, not just accept them at face value.

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This evidence does not exist with regards to psychic abilities or climate denier-ism.

 

[paulb]

AT the Iceland volcanoes are to do with the mid atlantic ridge. tectonic plates moving apart. also Iceland is a hot spot. nowt to do with the rebound from the last ice age.

[ArabiaTerra]

AT the Iceland volcanoes are to do with the mid atlantic ridge. tectonic plates moving apart. also Iceland is a hot spot. nowt to do with the rebound from the last ice age.

I know. But there has been a lot of speculation in the media about a possible link between vulcanism and melting ice in general, much of it ill-informed. As far as the Icelandic eruptions are concerned, I doubt that there is any link, but I also wouldn't conclusively rule it out.

 

The link, if any, is poorly understood so, as the scientists would say, more research is needed.

[ArabiaTerra]

Science fiction author, David Brin, on denial vs scepticism.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Since the Sun was ruled out as a major contributing factor in recent temperature rises, the anti AGW side has had nothing and instead has relied on lies and smears instead.

 

When was the last time you heard any argument against AGW that actually carried any scientific weight?

 

It goes a little something like this...

 

http://research.aerology.com/aerology-analog-weather-forecasting-method/

[Guest Anonymous]

I generally don't get involved with enviro'mental' debates but I have a question...

 

Let's just say (for arguments sake) that the scientists have got it right for once and concluded correctly that humans are contributing to the increased rate of change to the planets' climate... So what?

(Typing that feels rather unpatriotic.. Which is good)

I'm likely to get a negative response to my non-conformist attitude but my view is.. We've all enjoyed the party without thought to the future, we've all watched while countries were invaded without cause and peoples human and civil rights were contravened, we (none of us) did anything but pray (effectively shut our eyes) for the abused catholic choirboys (O, don't get me started on religion.. If god created this planet, I'm sure he has an interest in saving it)... My point is. If this is the education we're passing forward.. What is worth saving?