Climate Change & Global Warming

[KOYAANISQATSI]

[ArabiaTerra]

Reply to Koy's video above.

 

 

First lie at 1:16. Global warming has stopped. :- No it hasn't.

 

2nd Lie at 3:14. Possible Discussion of impending mini ice-age. :- Not in any of the science I have read.

 

3rd Lie at 8:50. No accounting for Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCM's) in the body of Climate Science. :- There have been multiple scientific papers on this. The consensus is GCM's have no effect on climate.

 

And then it gets ludicrous. Climate Change on Venus! We have close observations of Venus from the Magellan probe in the 90's for a few months and a few months observations this century and yet this is enough data to claim climate change is happening on Venus! We don't even have enough data to say what is normal on Venus.

 

And the same goes for all the other planets mentioned. We don't have enough data on other planets to even begin to tell the difference between normal weather patterns and some sort of systemic, solar-system wide, change.

 

12:19 CO2 in the upper atmosphere cools. Yes it does, but the amount of CO2 and therefore the amount of cooling is so small it is drowned out by the larger effects of increasing CO2 in the lower atmosphere. The air is pretty thin up there.

 

12:52 And here is the conspiracy theory. Agenda 21, One world government, New World Order, blah, blah blah, feckin' blah. There's a reason the official Republican Party policy is against Agenda 21: It's to get the votes of the conspiracy nuts.

 

Don't you ever get tired of being afraid, Koy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KOYAANISQATSI]

 

 

3rd Lie at 8:50. No accounting for Galactic Cosmic Rays (GCM's) in the body of Climate Science. :- There have been multiple scientific papers on this. The consensus is GCM's have no effect on climate.

 

You're yesterdays news AT!

Well... in fact you're the day before yesterdays news.

Here's yesterdays news:

 

 

 

Science News

Sep. 4, 2013

 

Unexpected Magic by Cosmic Rays

 

Atmospheric chemists have assumed that when the clusters have gathered up the day's yield, they stop growing, and only a small fraction can become large enough to be meteorologically relevant. Yet in the SKY2 experiment, with natural cosmic rays and gamma-rays keeping the air in the chamber ionized, no such interruption occurs. This result suggests that another chemical process seems to be supplying the extra molecules needed to keep the clusters growing.

"The result boosts our theory that cosmic rays coming from the Galaxy are directly involved in the Earth's weather and climate," says Henrik Svensmark, lead author of the new report. "In experiments over many years, we have shown that ionizing rays help to form small molecular clusters. Critics have argued that the clusters cannot grow large enough to affect cloud formation significantly. But our current research, of which the reported SKY2 experiment forms just one part, contradicts their conventional view. Now we want to close in on the details of the unexpected chemistry occurring in the air, at the end of the long journey that brought the cosmic rays here from exploded stars."

Unexpected magic by cosmic rays in cloud formation

 

Paper here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51188502/PLA22068.pdf

 

[ArabiaTerra]

 

"The result boosts our theory that cosmic rays coming from the Galaxy are directly involved in the Earth's weather and climate," says Henrik Svensmark,

 

The trouble is the Lachamps Event which occurred around 40,000 years ago.

 

 

The Laschamp event was a short reversal of the Earth's magnetic field. It occurred 41,000 years ago during the last ice age. The period of reversed magnetic field was 440 years, with the transition from the normal field lasting 250 years. The reversed field was 75% weaker whereas the strength dropped to only 5% of the current strength during the transition. This resulted in greater radiation reaching the Earth, causing greater production of beryllium 10. The magnetic excursion has been demonstrated in sediment cores from the Black Sea, and in a lava flow at Laschamp in the Clermont-Ferrand district. Higher levels of carbon 14 would also have been produced during the low field times.

 

 That's nearly 1000 years with the magnetic field at 25% or less with a corresponding huge increase in cosmic rays. The climate didn't even notice. No effect whatsoever. These guys have been pushing this "cosmic rays cause climate change" thing for about 15 years now and nobody is taking them seriously.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Mayhaps be, that there's more things in heaven and Earth than in your vision and besides; stop living in the past AT.

As we bob around the galaxy, through varying regions of plasma density, with varying current densities and magnetic fields... what makes you think conditions are going to be the same as 40,000 years ago?

We're only now starting to probe the Van Allen belt and have barely scraped the helliopause and the findings have space physicists scratching their collective heads.

You can keep playing the old records but sooner or later you're gonna have to learn a new tune.

[Rivlins]

Of course, all things are possible with imaginary science

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Of course, all things are possible with imaginary science

Amazing as it may seem Rivlins; to one as ignorant and uninformed as your good self but yes! we are going round the galaxy. Further to your no doubt disbelief, we are moving through varying areas of plasma, with many complex electromagnetic known, unknown and on occasion ignored, interactions of varying types.

Also, as mind blowingly amazing as it must be for you; there is indeed have a heliosphere and incredible as this must seem to you... it has been known about by NASA for some time but they are still learning many things that are baffling them every day.

 

 

 

Plasmas and their embedded magnetic fields affect the formation, evolution and destiny of planets and planetary systems. The heliosphere shields the solar system from galactic cosmic radiation. Our habitable planet is shielded by its magnetic field, protecting it from solar and cosmic particle radiation and from erosion of the atmosphere by the solar wind. Planets without a shielding magnetic field, such as Mars and Venus, are exposed to those processes and evolve differently. And on Earth, the magnetic field changes strength and configuration during its occasional polarity reversals, altering the shielding of the planet from external radiation sources.

How important is a magnetosphere to the development and survivability of life? The solar wind, where it meets the local interstellar medium (LISM), forms boundaries that protect the planets from the galactic environment. The interstellar interaction depends on the raw pressure of the solar wind and the properties of the local interstellar medium (density, pressure, magnetic field, and bulk flow). These properties, particularly those of the LISM, change over the course of time, and change dramatically on long time scales (1,000 years and longer) as the solar system encounters interstellar clouds.

How do these long-term changes affect the sustainability of life in our solar system? Understanding the nature of these variations and their consequences requires a series of investigations targeting the structure of the heliosphere and its boundaries and conditions in the LISM. Planetary systems form in disks of gas and dust around young stars. Stellar ultraviolet emission, winds, and energetic particles alter this process, both in the internal structure of the disk and its interaction with its parent star. The role of magnetic fields in the formation process has not been fully integrated with other parts of the process.

The study of similar regions in our solar system, such as dusty plasmas surrounding Saturn and Jupiter, will help explain the role of plasma processes in determining the types of planets that can form, and how they later evolve.

Heliosphere - NASA Science

I know! amazing, right?

Even Hannes Alfvén turns out to be a real person after all and despite his crazy claims like...

"In order to understand the phenomena in a certain plasma region, it is necessary to map not only the magnetic but also the electric field and the electric currents. Space is filled with a network of currents which transfer energy and momentum over large or very large distances. The currents often pinch to filamentary or surface currents. The latter are likely to give space, as also interstellar and intergalactic space, a cellular structure"

and...

"A study of how a number of the most used textbooks in astrophysics treat important concepts such as double layers, critical velocity, pinch effects, and circuits is made. It is found that students using these textbooks remain essentially ignorant of even the existence of these concepts, despite the fact that some of them have been well known for half a century (e.g, double layers, Langmuir, 1929; pinch effect, Bennet, 1934)"

...They still piled the awards on him for his imaginative science...

 

• 1947 Member, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences.
• 1947 Member, Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering Sciences (resigned 1980).
• 1958 Foreign Member, Academy of Sciences of the USSR (Akademia NAUK).
• 1962 American Academy of Arts and Sciences, Boston.
• 1965 Honorary DSc, University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
• 1966 Foreign Member, National Academy of Sciences, Washington DC.
• 1967 Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society.
• 1970 Nobel Prize in Physics.
• 1971 Lomonosov Medal of the USSR Academy of Sciences.
• 1971 Gold Medal of the Franklin Institute.
• 1972 Foreign Member, Indian National Science Academy.
• 1974 Yugoslavian Academy of Science.
• 1977 Honorary DSc, University of Oxford.
• 1980 Foreign Member, Royal Society, London.
• 1985 Honorary PhD, Stockholm University.
• 1987 Bowie Gold Medal, American Geophysical Union.
• 1994 Dirac Medal, University of New South Wales and the Australian Institute of Physics.

 

Pity he didn't know about your awareness of real science Rivlins. I'm sure you would have set him straight on a few things.

Oh lol.

[Rivlins]

Hannes Alfvén's work has very little to do with your electric universe nonsense, you silly sod. But nice work dragging him in; it demonstrates (like it needed demonstrating) that you're just regurgitating buzzwords and phrases you imagiene are connected. Probably all cut 'n' pasted from some looper's website somewhere.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Hannes Alfvén's work has very little to do with your electric universe nonsense, you silly sod. But nice work dragging him in; it demonstrates (like it needed demonstrating) that you're just regurgitating buzzwords and phrases you imagiene are connected. Probably all cut 'n' pasted from some looper's website somewhere.

You seem very sure of yourself there Rivlins but lets consider what you think you know, against what NASA etc seem to to be making the first tentative steps to look into...

 

We got plasma double layers...

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/01/090107-warm-plasma-cloak.html

 

We got charged bodies in space...

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2010/11/101118-science-space-full-moon-electric-charge/

 

Now we seem to be getting those magnetic flux tubes described as Birkeland currents, interacting on all sorts of scales...

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11207-013-0399-0

 

I wonder what sort of things get transported in them?

Candy perhaps?

Candy... for meeee?

 

 

Beyond Earth's protective atmosphere and extending all the way through interplanetary space, electrified particles dominate the scene. Indeed, 99% of the universe is made of this electrified gas, known as plasma.

Scientists want to understand not only the origins of electrified particles – possibly from the solar wind constantly streaming off the sun; possibly from an area of Earth's own outer atmosphere, the ionosphere – but also what mechanisms gives the particles their extreme speed and energy. 

there is another reason scientists are interested in this area. It is the closest place to study the material, plasma, that pervades the entire universe. Understanding this environment so foreign to our own is crucial to understanding the make up of every star and galaxy in outer space.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/rbsp/news/electric-atmosphere.html

 

Hannes Alfven's work will go a long way in their search for understanding the electric universe.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

They may have to rethink a few prior assumptions on the way.

It's not just connecting phrases Rivlins; it's connecting everything...

Electrically!

[ArabiaTerra]

^^^ Guys, could you take this debate to the "Trouble with Einstein" thread, it's hardly relevant to this one.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

[crofter]

Antarctica warms and the ice sheets melt:

 

http://climateprogress.org/2010/11/23/antarctica-warming-ice-sheet-melts/

 

Meanwhile the Arctic ice sees the lowest area ever recorded for this time of year:

 

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_stdev_timeseries_webtmb.png

(click to enlarge)

Well, 3 years later and the arctic ice is back to "normal" (1981 - 2010 average), http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

and Antarctic sea ice extent remains unusually high,

 

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2013/12/Figure4b-350x280.png

 

Wasn't it 2013 when the arctic summer was supposed to be ice -free?

[MuckleJoannie]

It is things like that which make me wonder how much of climate scinece is based on minute observations over a few years when the climate has been going unobserved for billions of years.

[jz]

Well, 3 years later and the arctic ice is back to "normal" (1981 - 2010 average), http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

The webpage you reference doesn't say that Arctic ice is back to normal ...

 

"Sea ice extent for November averaged 10.24 million square kilometers (3.95 million square miles). This is 750,000 square kilometers (290,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average extent and is the 6th lowest November extent in the 35-year satellite data record."

[crofter]

That is why I put "normal" - inside the shaded grey area on the graph on that page.

 

Here's another quote

 

"BBC News reports that data from Europe’s Cryosat spacecraft shows that Arctic sea ice coverage was nearly 9,000 cubic kilometers (2,100 cubic miles) by the end of this year’s melting season, up from about 6,000 cubic kilometers (1,400 cubic miles) during the same time last year." (last year being 2012)

 

Thank goodness water can freeze back into ice again!