Climate Change & Global Warming

[sheepshagger]

All we have done is replace the wild herds with herds of domesticated animals. The amount of meat "on the hoof" is probably similar now to what it was in the epochs before man domesticated animals and began rearing them for food.

 

there were a damn sight more buffalo on the american plains than there are cows now.

africa was teeming we all sorts of meat on the hoof, its pretty bloody scarce now.

 

yet more ramblings from a boy we a computer for a life.

[ArabiaTerra]

All we have done is replace the wild herds with herds of domesticated animals. The amount of meat "on the hoof" is probably similar now to what it was in the epochs before man domesticated animals and began rearing them for food.

there were a damn sight more buffalo on the american plains than there are cows now.

africa was teeming we all sorts of meat on the hoof, its pretty bloody scarce now.

Thanks for supporting my argument for once SS. Methane emissions from cows or other livestock are basically irrelevant in the context of global warming.

[sheepshagger]

hardly supporting your argument just pointing out your argument is based at best on incomplete information.

[Spinner72]

The world is finally taking climate change seriously, but we have wasted 20 years thanks to big business, the Bush regime and the gullible fools who believed their propaganda. I just hope that we don't come to regret those 20 wasted years but I fear we will.

 

I'm sorry, this bit completely lost me.

 

The propeganda that has been shoved down everyone's throats since the 80's has been that we as humans have an impact on global warming, and that "we" have to do something about it. I like to think people in general are waking up to the fact that this is nothing more than a money-making, job creating, farce, and are now understanding the facts for themselves.

 

So, once again I'll ask the question. Where is your evidence that global warming is not man-made?

 

Very simple - greenhouse gasses existed long before man did, and will exist long after. Do we contribute to them? yes, of course we do. But so do many things. Its called evolution. Is it always pretty and fair? I dunno, ask the dinosaurs...

 

As we all know, google will provide "credible scientific studies" to support anything, something which always plagues debates such as this online. There are literally hours worth of ramblings from hundres of "experts", but at the end of the day, it's no more than a theory which happened to have political use at the time of it's inception, and continues to be used to manipulate people to this day.

 

If you think the political aspect is irrelevant, consider funding. Which project would you most likely get funding for :

 

A study of the migration of the hedgehog population in the UK.

 

A study of the migration of the hedgehog population in the UK due to climate change.

 

I believe number two would be most successful, don't you?

 

Let me try to emphasise the gritty realism of the situation again if you don't mind :

 

Do any believers in the theory of mans imact on global warming think that using it as a reason to suppress development in the third world, thus ensuring that people continue to die needlessly on a daily basis, is right?

 

Or would letting them run generators for a few more years until renewable and more environmentally friendly alternatives become economically viable be enough to destroy the earth too quickly for it to matter?

[Medziotojas]

Isn't Yellowstone due to go up sometime soon anyway? Last I heard it was 30,000 years overdue.

 

Sorry, bit cynical there; I agree we should be doing our best to cut down on our emissions and conserve energy, but nature has a funny way of sorting things out.

[ArabiaTerra]

As we all know, google will provide "credible scientific studies" to support anything

At last!

 

Go on then. Google up some scientific studies that say that global warming is not man-made. Go on, I dare you.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm

[paulb]

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/lerwickdata.txt

met office stats not being clever but looking at the temp and sunshine totals there is no increase at lerwick they seem more vaiable but there is a pattern of highs and lows we seem due for a chilly winter last summer was one of the colder ones on record.

[ArabiaTerra]

http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm

 

Are you serious?

 

There have always been volcanoes, undersea or otherwise. They are an essential part of the natural carbon cycle of this planet, without them we'd be sitting (dead) on a frozen ball of ice. I have yet to see a single scientific report to say that we are undergoing a massive increase in volcanic activity.

 

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/lerwickdata.txt

met office stats not being clever but looking at the temp and sunshine totals there is no increase at lerwick they seem more vaiable but there is a pattern of highs and lows we seem due for a chilly winter last summer was one of the colder ones on record.

Average Max for 1931=9.1

Average Max for 2007=9.8

 

No increase? I would have to import all those figures into a spreadsheet to make proper sense of them, but data from one weather station is not enough to prove anything one way or the other. When this data is collated for all the weather stations around the Globe then conclusions can be drawn.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

As you can see from the graph, there is a clear increase globally.

[paulb]

you have to be careful with the earlier temp readings as the equipment was not always accurate. but yes there is a trend for warming. some can be natural but the rest man made. you have to remember that the 1860 onwards was at the end of europes little ice age hence frost fares on the thames. the climate was warmer in the roman and early medieval period hence wine growing in england. then and now. shame it cant stop the cold winds its freezing.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

There are some stats that say we are actually still in the mini-ice age, and it was only the start of large scale burning of coal in the early 1800s that has negated this.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

I know i will get shot down for saying this, but mans uncontrolled mass polluting of the planet is at this time more of a concern than Global warming.IMHO.

[paulb]

would the smoke not have a cooling affect

[Spinner72]

As you can see from the graph, there is a clear increase globally.

 

But only over the past 1200 or so years!

 

This is a cycle which operates over millions of years, snapping a miniscule part of the earths 4.5 Billion year development and presenting it as evidence is the most fundimentally flawed aspect of almost all global warming theorys.

 

But, since we're on that trend - what happened to the temprature (according to the graph above) during the post WW2 global industrial revolution?

 

 

Edit - just noticed this so will respond

 

As we all know, google will provide "credible scientific studies" to support anything

At last!

 

Go on then. Google up some scientific studies that say that global warming is not man-made. Go on, I dare you.

 

Google is a useless tool for genuine debate, as so much online "data" is meaningless alarmist media BS, or the inate ramblings of Joe Bloggers...

 

So, i shall refer to the National Acadamy of Sciences studies directly in the first instance : Surface Temperature Reconstructions

for the Last 2,000 Years

 

I'm sure you can find it using google, so i don't think i've "broken the rules"

 

 

So, i responded, and would apreciate if some "believers" would do so in kind to my previous question regarding the justification of the suppression of industrial development in the third world, due to its theoretical impact on global warming.

[Malachy]

It is correct to say that temperatures have been both warmer and cooler at various times in the planet's history, though by much less than people imagine (the little Ice Age was only about 1 degree cooler on average for example). One of the most significant concerns about the current changes however is the speed at which they are taking place. The rise over the past century or so would normally take much, much longer. The result of this is that animal species, plant species, whole ecosystems, rather than adapting to the changes, simply collapse. The first signs of this are already visible in Shetland with the collapse of the breeding seabird populations. Rather than adjusting their diet gradually, the birds are simply starving. That is worth worrying about, because despite what many people seem to think, we do actually rely on our environment functioning correctly in order for our species to survive.