Climate Change & Global Warming

[ArabiaTerra]

Bio-fuels were never going to solve anything. We can barely grow enough food to feed the world as it is. Turning huge areas of the worlds farmland over to growing fuel always was a stupid idea.

 

Environmental campaigners not thinking or caring about the consequences of their actions.

 

As opposed to the International Corporations who, as we all know, only have the worlds best interests at heart?

 

What I don't get about your arguments Sheepshagger, is this extreme hostility towards environmentalists. You talk about them the way I talk about the animal rights scum. What has brought this on? Have you been attacked by an environmentalist, or were you an oil company executive in a previous life? Please, do tell.

[sheepshagger]

I'm hostile ta anyone that imposes or tries to impose their will on me.

an da environmentalists are costing everyone a bloody fortune in green taxes.

An it really pisses me off that the most vocal don't pay taxes by keeping their fortunes out of the country.

I'm expected to save the world, feed the poor, an walk to bloody work while bono took the largest stage ever on tour round the whole bloody planet. hell it was even a point of pride for them. environmentalism didn't seem to matter when planning their tour.

then meetings with TB to tell him how to spend our tax money saving the planet, I would think that being a taxpayer would be the first qualification of telling us how to spend our money.

hope that answers your question

[sheepshagger]

Oh yeah an he flew his hat first class

[Evil Inky]

when fools and liars shout your corner don't be suprised when folk don't pay too much attention to your message.

maybe if the get oot yer car and eat grass brigade could come up with a frontman thats no a numpty I might be able to take them seriously.

but then again maybe only a numpty will front them

I realise that simply accusing climate scientists of being "fools", "liars", and "numptys" is a lot easier than actually looking at the evidence and coming up with a coherent argument , but I don't think it's the best way to bring people around to your way of thinking.

[Roachmill]

I'm hostile ta anyone that imposes or tries to impose their will on me.

You'll be single then

[ArabiaTerra]

I'm still having a hard time understanding where you are coming from, Sheepshagger.

da environmentalists are costing everyone a bloody fortune in green taxes.

Like what? The only Green taxes I can think of are the Fuel Price Escalator (abandoned after the protests)

 

Higher Car Tax, which don't affect your peerie Mazda.

 

The tax on flights, which is only 10%, I believe which might cost you £20-£30 a year.

 

Fair enough, taxes have risen under Labour but these are not Green taxes.

An it really pisses me off that the most vocal don't pay taxes by keeping their fortunes out of the country.

Surely that is a political problem rather than one to blame environmentalists for. The Rich have always avoided paying their fair share of taxes and I'm afraid they always will but what that has to do with the environment I don't know.

 

I do agree that Bono is a bit of a dick tho'. Him and Sting should stick to making music.

[Fjool]

Oh yeah an he flew his hat first class

Was there a special flight for it, or was it just popped on to a plane that happened to be going that way anyway?

[Roachmill]

Oh yeah an he flew his hat first class

Was there a special flight for it, or was it just popped on to a plane that happened to be going that way anyway?

I eagerly await an answer to this burning question. If he chartered a plane just for his hat then all environmentalists around the world must be d*cks and everything they do is wrong... and sheepshagger is right. Say it ain't so sheepshagger

[ArabiaTerra]

An interesting take on the debate:

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=311805

[sheepshagger]

Yes A.T. but he maybe forgot that the 1930s economic collapse was followed by the 2nd world war and that was a pretty catastrophic event. a war fought on a global scale with weapons that are now obsolete. imagine if it were fought now we have nukes, chemical and biological weapons, and for damn sure someone will use them. so collumn A has 2 bummer rows and collumn B only has one.

 

The tax on my last flight aberdeen to sumburgh was £38 one way it has cost me over £300 in fuel surcharges on one trip, depends how many seperate flights you happen take. This has increased the cost of living for eveyone.

 

I have nothing against someone who avoids tax just the idiots that tell us how the taxes their not paying should be spent.

 

the road tax on me peerie mazda has increased

 

I'm happily married roacmill and would never dream of imposing my will on my wife and vice versa

 

and as for all environmentalists being dicks, not all most are just misguided

 

I don't have a problem with burning less oil or even finding cleaner ways to burn it. I dont throw rubbish outside, I recycle cans and bottles, re-use plastic bags and drive a peerier car than most.

I do this because it makes sense not because i beleive the world is about to end.

We are making a bloody mess just take a walk on any beach in shetland to see that, but not to the extremes that is claimed and the solution is not scare mungering, the predictions made by the doom sayers 10 and 20 years ago have not come to pass, so why believe them now. A lot of what is claimed now has been proved wrong like hurricane frequency and strength has been proved to be part of the natural cycle not the harbringer of the apocolypse the greens would have us believe.

 

So if they cut the sprootle it may be possible to find a common ground.

The story of chicken licken certainly comes to mind when listening to them though.

[Twerto]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7014503.stm

 

nice to see a different ways of looking to solve issues in global warming

[Fjool]

Whilst I agree that alternative ideas are worth exploring, I'm not sure that encouraging algal bloom is the way forward. Attempting to correct the problems caused by environmental interference by interfering with other aspects of the environment sounds somewhat harebrained on first reading.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Haven't followed this thread to closely as I'm pigsh*t thick on the ins and outs of a solution but I think I've found my favourite post ever on anything:

I'm expected to save the world, feed the poor, an walk to bloody work while bono took the largest stage ever on tour round the whole bloody planet. hell it was even a point of pride for them. environmentalism didn't seem to matter when planning their tour.

then meetings with TB to tell him how to spend our tax money saving the planet, I would think that being a taxpayer would be the first qualification of telling us how to spend our money.

hope that answers your question

I'll stay firmly on the fence on this one for the timebeing but since I'm here, for my ten pence, chewing gum wrapper and bit of strings worth:

http://www.marijuana.com/legalization-decriminalization/79837-deforestation-hemp-how-stop-global-warming.html

[sheepshagger]

and now to really confuse some folks check this out. I didn't find it on the net Iknow one of the folk involved

http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/nyheter/spill/verdi/16696

[sheepshagger]

Interesting findings in court Al Gores nine inconvenient lies

 

Mr Gore claims that a sea-level rise of up to 20 feet would be caused by melting of either West Antarctica or Greenland "in the near future". The judge said: "This is distinctly alarmist and part of Mr Gore's "wake-up call". He agreed that if Greenland melted it would release this amount of water - "but only after, and over, millennia"."The Armageddon scenario he predicts, insofar as it suggests that sea level rises of seven metres might occur in the immediate future, is not in line with the scientific consensus."

 

 

The film claims that low-lying inhabited Pacific atolls "are being inundated because of anthropogenic global warming" but the judge ruled there was no evidence of any evacuation having yet happened.

 

 

The documentary speaks of global warming "shutting down the Ocean Conveyor" - the process by which the Gulf Stream is carried over the North Atlantic to western Europe. Citing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the judge said that it was "very unlikely" that the Ocean Conveyor, also known as the Meridional Overturning Circulation, would shut down in the future, though it might slow down.

 

 

Mr Gore claims that two graphs, one plotting a rise in C02 and the other the rise in temperature over a period of 650,000 years, showed "an exact fit". The judge said that, although there was general scientific agreement that there was a connection, "the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts".

 

 

Mr Gore says the disappearance of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro was directly attributable to global warming, but the judge ruled that it scientists have not established that the recession of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro is primarily attributable to human-induced climate change.

 

 

The film contends that the drying up of Lake Chad is a prime example of a catastrophic result of global warming but the judge said there was insufficient evidence, and that "it is apparently considered to be far more likely to result from other factors, such as population increase and over-grazing, and regional climate variability."

 

 

Mr Gore blames Hurricane Katrina and the consequent devastation in New Orleans on global warming, but the judge ruled there was "insufficient evidence to show that".

 

 

Mr Gore cites a scientific study that shows, for the first time, that polar bears were being found after drowning from "swimming long distances - up to 60 miles - to find the ice" The judge said: "The only scientific study that either side before me can find is one which indicates that four polar bears have recently been found drowned because of a storm."That was not to say there might not in future be drowning-related deaths of bears if the trend of regression of pack ice continued - "but it plainly does not support Mr Gore's description".

 

 

Mr Gore said that coral reefs all over the world were being bleached because of global warming and other factors. Again citing the IPCC, the judge agreed that, if temperatures were to rise by 1-3 degrees centigrade, there would be increased coral bleaching and mortality, unless the coral could adapt. However, he ruled that separating the impacts of stresses due to climate change from other stresses, such as over-fishing, and pollution was difficult.