Climate Change & Global Warming

[Carlos]

Why didn't ozone depletion have the level of denial that climate change does? or perhaps it did.

Because in the ozone layer case commercial interests felt they could make more from the introduction of the changes needed, while in the GW case they feel that they can make more money if there are not any changes?

[Gibber]

Getting rid of CFCs for the ozone layer and offsetting carbon footprints for climate change are both changes though.

 

Are sceptics of CC generally also ozone layer sceptics? Along the lines of; corporate interests say "we saved the ozone layer we can do the same with CO2 but its going to cost on a taxation level, not just a passing of costs (of CFC removal) to the consumer level this time"

[Gibber]

Without getting into whether CC is real or not I think its along the same lines of those who deny the moon landings but have no problem with spaceships orbiting the earth. There seems to be some level that is reached where denial kicks in for whatever reason (whether those reasons are valid ones or conspiracy theorist type denial).

[ArabiaTerra]

Halting the destruction of the ozone layer was a relatively trivial thing. CFC's, which were the cause of the problem, had two main uses: As refrigerants, and as aerosol propellants. It was easy to change the chemicals used to ones which did not affect ozone.

 

Climate change is a whole other story. In order to stop climate change, we have to stop burning fossil fuels. This means dismantling the entire fossil fuels extraction and processing industry. This industry, last year, was worth six trillion dollars* or around 15% of global GDP. As you can imagine, there are powerful vested interests with a motive for preventing this, hence the well funded denier campaign.

 

 

*I can't find the link to confirm this figure so I might be wrong as I'm quoting from memory. It was definitely multiple trillions though.

[ArabiaTerra]

 

[Gibber]

I thought the deniers believed that there isn't a problem and theses measures are being brought into place by vested interests, namely increased tax to stop the damage by governments, a one world government even, not the oil industry.

 

I suppose it could be both if the denial has no credence in the same way the problems of the world can be both the Muslims and the Jews, the communists and the capitalists for conspiracy theorists.

[ArabiaTerra]

I thought the deniers believed that there isn't a problem and theses measures are being brought into place by vested interests, namely increased tax to stop the damage by governments, a one world government even, not the oil industry.

That's the conspiracy theory the deniers want you to believe.

 

Think about this though, if AGW was a conspiracy, then the climate scientists must be fiddling the science, so why haven't the oil and coal industries gone out and done their own science? It should be a trivial matter to uncover such a vast fraud. After all, it's not like the fossil fuel industry is short of money and their very existence is what is at stake here. A few percent of their profits spent doing their own science would dwarf the money spent by climate scientists perpetrating their "fraudulent" science.

 

The only reason the fossil fuel companies haven't done this is because they've looked at the climate science and concluded that it is sound, so any challenge would be a waste of money, and probably counter-productive, as it would actually reinforce the scientific consensus.

 

Instead, they've poured money into political lobbying and funding denier propaganda. The object of this is not to disprove the science, as the science is sound. Instead they seek to create doubt in the minds of the public. It's the same tactic as used by the tobacco companies in the eighties and early nineties, and actually run by many of the same people.

[Gibber]

Think about this though, if AGW was a conspiracy, then the climate scientists must be fiddling the science, so why haven't the oil and coal industries gone out and done their own science?

 

Thats interesting, conspiracy theorists set so much store in "the corporations" manipulating everything they are now forced to abandon this position to an extent and take it up a notch. You can only take it up so many notches before it becomes (more, and hopefully more obviously) stupid. Unless of course "thats what they want us to think" etc...

[ArabiaTerra]

This pretty much sums it up:

 

 

And, why geo-engineering won't save us.

[justlookin]

This global warming must be holding off, i've not seen a mention of it in the news for a long time now(months). They must have gotten all those laws and bills they need to pushed through with the last bombardment of propaganda. Hat off to AT for being able to type so much and respond to almost every post. You must have nothing else to do. The most professional troll i've had the pleasure of ignoring.

Bring on the big freeze!!

[Carlos]

Quite a big story a couple of weeks back

Met Office report: global warming evidence is 'unmistakable'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7914611/Met-Office-report-global-warming-evidence-is-unmistakable.html

 

And what the Telegraph (not the biggest supporter of AGW) columnist said on it

The Met Office's climate change report: between denial and alarm lies reality

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100045477/the-met-offices-climate-change-report-between-denial-and-alarm-lies-reality/

[Evil Inky]

They must have gotten all those laws and bills they need to pushed through with the last bombardment of propaganda.

Did the abject failure of the Copenhagen Summit pass you by, then ? If you think meaningful action is being taken by the world's governments to combat climate change then you're sorely mistaken.

[justlookin]

If you think meaningful action is being taken by the world's governments to combat climate change then you're sorely mistaken.

 

Meaningful action is being taken, but its not to combat "Climate Change" no. Its to give power to regimes and plans. Such as Sustainable Development and Agenda 21. This carbon footprint boll0cks will be the footstep to intense depopulation via any means necessary.

[ArabiaTerra]

This global warming must be holding off, i've not seen a mention of it in the news for a long time now(months).

Well then, maybe you need to pull your head out of the sand and start paying attention, we're in the middle of the most extreme heatwave in recorded history:

 

http://climateprogress.org/2010/08/09/russia-heat-wave-one-thousand-years-global-warming/

 

The world doesn't stop at that line you call the horizon.

 

[Guest Anonymous]

thats just weather AT and as you have pointed out all winter weather is not climate unless of course it backs up your crackpot ideas.