Climate Change & Global Warming

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

And anyway I stated 90 times in the last few decades you just scanned what I posted and jumped to your pre-conceived idea.

 

Go figure out how many more cars in china since 1970

 

or on the planet for that matter!

 

this link demonstrates my point.

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2010-11/25/content_11608372.htm

[shetlandpeat]

You are not the only one blaming the Chinese and Indians on this thread, you just happen to be responding, a few?

 

0ne is one

 

a couple is two,

 

few is three? discretionary, or very little, several who knows, I just found it hard tho believe that there were only 800,000 or so cars in China in 1980. Sorta what I said already.

 

So, what I was saying that some of the statements were sweeping, which is a little unfair when there are institutions, Govs and folk working to correct that. A stereotypical view is not fair.

 

My post was in reaction to bobs incorrect assumption, or stereotypical view of facts about other nations. There are so many other nations that need to sort things out, but why would they take our help if we keep calling them backward thinkers.

 

You are right in saying they should enjoy a good life, but how can they do that without taking our cash and maximising on it.

 

I was not going against the thoughts that China and India will use more fossil fuels as they catch up, there is still a huge amount of work to be done.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

For the 2nd time - i am not blaming anybody!

an apology will still be accepted.

a few...? 2,3,4 , a grain ? twartree ?

[Guest Anonymous]

waffle waffle waffle peat it is all you seem to do mixed in with the odd statement that I am,

A) a liar

misinformed

C) stupid

 

Fact is the developing world will continue to increase their CO2 output while we destroy our economy cutting ours.

 

Now we all know what socially conscientious folks you and AT are but do you really think that it is the rich in our society that will suffer the most when these policies of carbon cutting are carried out. No it is the poorer folks that will carry the can and then you will have even more to waffle about on here.

 

Fact is not one agreement has been reached to reduce the worlds CO2 emissions but our govs both in Edinburgh and the previous one in London are/were hell bent on reducing ours unilaterally at great expense to us individually and as a nation. and numpties like you and AT have bought into the bull hook line and sinker.

[Guest Anonymous]

Just because you find something hard to believe SP does not mean it is not true, so before you call Gorgo (or anyone else for that matter) a liar I think you should check out your facts

[Claudias]

[***Mod edit - please refer to the T&Cs***]

[Guest Anonymous]

[*** Mod edit - please refer to T&Cs ***]

[JGHR]

I think it may be wrong to make such sweeping stations without first noting that

 

 

considering that the chinese, indians, etc are going to carry on increasing their carbon output with out restriction then any reduction we make is totally pointless. unless of course your objective is to destroy our economy at a time when the countries mentioned above are going to be going flat out growing their economies.

 

now seem s a little inaccurate.

 

Shetlandpete I find most of your posts almost impossible to read, let alone understand, so I apologise in advance if I have misinterpreted the point you are making.

 

If you are suggesting that Bobdahog is wrong in saying that Chinas carbon output is going to increase you are mistaken. China will almost certainly increase its CO2 output over the next 25-30 years. While the Chinese are currently investing heavily in non fossil fuel generating facilities such as nuclear and hydro they cannot build these fast enough to keep up with their increasing energy requirements. To meet their growing demand they are also increasing their coal generating capacity. The US energy information administration (EIA) has coal accounting for 71% of Chinas generating capacity in 2008. The EIA analysis predicts that this will fall to 62% by 2035, however that does not mean that they will be burning less coal. Quite the opposite, by 2035 the EIA predict that China will almost double the amount of energy they generate from coal from 60 quadrillion British Thermal Units to 112 quadrillion BTU by 2035. These are huge numbers which are almost beyond comprehension but, if I got the correct number of zeros after the decimal point, that is around three thousand two hundred and eighty trillion mega watts of power being generated by coal in China by 2035. That's a lot of CO2 going up the stack. Da Hog is quite right when he says that the Chinese are growing their economy and their carbon output and while they token efforts we make in the west to reduce our CO2 outputs may not, as Bob puts it, be pointless they will be fairly futile in the face of those numbers.

 

And then there is India.

[ArabiaTerra]

I am going to have to burst your bubble Arabia Terra, the viking energy wind farm as proposed is not going to save the planet , it's not going to save one single lump of coal or drop of oil.

 

It will have a massive impact on our local environment and the environment of many others , from moving millions of cubes of our hillsides around and digging vast seabed trenches from here to the mainland. Scouring other peoples landscapes for rare earth , copper and other hard to get minerals and metals .

 

It will be just another cog in this capitalist resource consuming machine into which we are all locked, thanks to the monetery economic system of present.

 

Here are a few facts to burst your bubble :-

 

Russia has confirmed it will maintain crude oil production at 500 million barrels for the next 10 years , destroying Siberian rain forest to get at these remote resources

I think the situation in the international oil markets is much more volatile than it looks. There is another oil shock coming. If the current Middle East unrest spreads into Saudi then this could come within weeks, but even if it doesn't, the gradual recovery of the worlds economy will increase demand which will push the price up and bring in the speculators and we'll see another shock which will bring the whole world economy to a shuddering halt again. There is simply not enough oil left in the ground to prevent this. One of Saudi's experts recently broke cover and revealed that they have been massively overstating their reserves for years.

 

If I'm right and this does happen, then the drive to replace oil will be ramped up massively and demand will fall. Falling demand will make the more difficult stuff uneconomical to produce.

 

Also, Russia got a serious climate wake-up call last summer. It will take a while for the consequences of that to work their way through the system, but Russia's enthusiasm for oil may well be short lived.

 

Australia has confirmed that the countries coal mining industry will increase production by another 80 % over the next 15 years, most of which willl go to feed the mega giant chineses economy.

Ha! They'll have to pump out their existing mines first.

 

Like Russia, Aus has just had a wake-up call about the likely future as Climate Change kicks in. I think attitudes there will be changing after this summer.

 

And, as far as China goes, they are suffering a serious drought at the moment in their main wheat growing region, which is going to push up global prices even further and considering that high food prices have been a big factor in the Middle East unrest, there could be Interesting Times ahead for the Chinese government.

 

It should also be noted that China is installing more renewables, faster than anyone else in the world at the moment.

 

The offshore oil industry will have a further 100+ drilling rigs added to the global fleet over the next 10 - 15 years as well , with new offshore support vessels being produced at a rate of probably 1 a week. I know of one company that was building at the rate of a new boat every 2 weeks so that is probably a conservative estimate.

 

Thats not to mention offshore windfarm construction and support vessels which are also enjoying a building boom !

 

Our resource consuming civilisation continues undiminished, in fact it will easily take all the remaining resources to create this clean energy utopia of which you dream!

 

More than 300 million Chinese have become slightly better than poor working class and they all want to taste the good life, similarily so do further 100's of million across India and various other developing countries.

They all want a bite of the pie, and who are we living in well fed luxury to deny them?

The increased wealth of these nations has changed the farming & natural landscapes of many other parts of the globe, New Zealand for instance recently announced the cows now out number the human population in their lands , now over 4 million methane belching cows where their were none a short few hundred years ago, similar figures such as these will be found in many other countries where they cow never trod before.

 

So in summary, give up on this Viking energy will save the world crap ! It is a blatant untruth.

 

By the way did you ever watch the whole Zeitgeist movie ?

-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912#

 

I did expect you to have an opinion on that one?

 

What's the alternative? Seriously. Do we just let it all crash and burn?

 

I agree with much of what was in the Zeitgeist movie. Capitalism is a dead man walking. It needs to change. Civilisation needs to change. We are currently hurtling toward a cliff and the landing will be messy, if not fatal.

 

I see Climate Change as merely the first manifestation of this crisis.

 

The problem is that in order to change civilisation, there first must be a civilisation left to change. Viking Energy won't save the world, I agree, but it might help stave off disaster long enough for us to save the world. And that's why I support it.

[JGHR]

Ha! They'll have to pump out their existing mines first.

 

Like Russia, Aus has just had a wake-up call about the likely future as Climate Change kicks in. I think attitudes there will be changing after this summer.

 

I doubt if attitudes with respect to mining will change in Australia anytime soon, no matter what the climate does. The mining industry has enormous clout in Australia, the previous prime minister tried to increase their taxation and it cost him his job. The new prime minister has just announced her plans for a carbon tax but is yet to publish any details. Once the details are known I expect the powerful resources industry will bring a lot of pressure to bear on a few independent MPs to prevent the bill getting through parliament. Selling coal and iron ore to china is what kept Australia solvent while the rest of the world became mired in debt. Australia has no intention of reducing the amount of fossil fuel it exports. In Queensland alone there is billions and billions of dollars being spent right now on huge coal expansion projects, coal seam gas liquifaction projects, shale oil projects, underground coal gasification projects, none of this is going to stop because there was another flood. Flooding in Queensland is nothing new, it has been happening for as long as the white men have been there and likley before that too.

[Snaz]

Interesting article on the BBC giving airtime to the deniers.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/mar/03/bbc-climate-change-science

[ArabiaTerra]

^^^^ Yeah, the Beeb used to be pretty good on Climate Change, but they've really dropped the ball in the last couple of years.

[Guest Anonymous]

or woken up to reality

[ArabiaTerra]

Climate Scientists: Not in it for the money:

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/02/if-climate-scientists-push-the-consensus-its-not-for-the-money.ars?comments=1#comments-bar

[shetlandpeat]

Or maybe having to be fair, as all pay the licence.

Just a thought