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saddam's hed his neck stretched!!


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And does that make it any more palatable what a maniac the man was and the atrocities he perpetrated, and had perpetrated in his name? (And any apologists, don't tell me that an absolute dictator who literally holds your life in his hands, is going to allow such purges and atrocities without knowledge and sanction, if not his direct orders?!) Or should we and our leaders just feel that little bit more grubby ashamed that we feted him as friend and ally and allowed him to further his interest in genocide and mass murder as means to control and power for so long? I defy anyone to watch the film footage of the Kurds lying twisted in agony where they fell in the homes and streets of Hallabjah - the old men, women, children and babes at their others breasts - captured for all time by a passing film crew, not the grainy stills shown in the press, and feel an ounce of sympathy for this monster.

 

As for the manner of his death, a lot of people have obviously very short memories, as it was not (and perhaps still is not) uncommon for condemned men and women to be cursed and reviled by the families of their victims as they went to their deaths in the gas chamber of Ol' Sparky in the USA. And there's not such an outcry there. A little bit further back still and we have hawkers selling wares and rotten fruit to crowds to jeer and pelt those unfortunates condemned to the gallows in this country.

 

He could have had a lot worse than he did. The world is that bit cleanier for his stain being wiped from it, however he left it.

 

A martyr maybe, but not a live rallying point, and he has answered to the people of his country for his crimes.

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While I am at it, those of my generation may have heard that Hitler was Time magazine's Man of the Year 1936. Thankfully we eventually saw sense with that monster also. The West knew HE was slaughtering at that time, and yet "few objections were raised". Such matters are surely for the collective conscience and should not hold us back (I can hear the U.N. now, "Hmm, we didn't mind a bit of killing last year, so can we object to it this year?") Our political leaders may not be people we respect or even support, however in this one instance of justice, I give them mine.

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I think this quote sums up pretty well the soft pc world we now live in.

 

''There seems to be a lot of concern about the last two minutes of Saddam Hussein's life and less about the first 69 [years], in which he murdered hundreds of thousands of people,"

 

Sorry I think that is mince - something that could well have been lifted out of The Sun newspaper. The things he did during his years in power were awful, and he deserved to be punished severely. However, it must be sensible to recognise that taunting a soon to be martyr minutes before his death is going to fuel hatred and further death. Or am I being too politically correct? I don't think so, sorry.

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However, it must be sensible to recognise that taunting a soon to be martyr minutes before his death is going to fuel hatred and further death

 

There was always going to be repraisals and revenge attacks in his name after his excution, but showing the former leader to be totally powerless to defend himself from insults in the moments before justice finally finished him, will take away the 'All Powerful' and 'Mighty' perception of Saddam Hussein from his followers. They will be insulted in the short term but in the long term may lead to him being dropped from favour easier and quicker than if he was alive, well and still spouting rubbish from his prison cell.

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Also hopefully sooner rather than later it wil sink in that they are demonstighting without any retaliation from armed forces.. something i Assume they were never aloud to do under Sadam. which again i assume will start to sway some away from insugency and violence.

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And does that make it any more palatable what a maniac the man was and the atrocities he perpetrated, and had perpetrated in his name? (And any apologists, don't tell me that an absolute dictator who literally holds your life in his hands, is going to allow such purges and atrocities without knowledge and sanction, if not his direct orders?!) Or should we and our leaders just feel that little bit more grubby ashamed that we feted him as friend and ally and allowed him to further his interest in genocide and mass murder as means to control and power for so long?

We should be a lot more ashamed. We sold him weapons, encouraged him to wage war on Iran, and for years ignored his resulting brutality. Only when he'd outlived his usefulness were his crimes condemned, and eventually used as an excuse to invade Iraq and kill even more of its inhabitants.

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And does that make it any more palatable what a maniac the man was and the atrocities he perpetrated, and had perpetrated in his name? (And any apologists, don't tell me that an absolute dictator who literally holds your life in his hands, is going to allow such purges and atrocities without knowledge and sanction, if not his direct orders?!) Or should we and our leaders just feel that little bit more grubby ashamed that we feted him as friend and ally and allowed him to further his interest in genocide and mass murder as means to control and power for so long?

We should be a lot more ashamed. We sold him weapons, encouraged him to wage war on Iran, and for years ignored his resulting brutality. Only when he'd outlived his usefulness were his crimes condemned, and eventually used as an excuse to invade Iraq and kill even more of its inhabitants.

 

yes it is all very suspect.. but from what yoru saying it looks like your saying we should never try and correct the wrong.

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We should be a lot more ashamed. We sold him weapons, encouraged him to wage war on Iran, and for years ignored his resulting brutality. Only when he'd outlived his usefulness were his crimes condemned, and eventually used as an excuse to invade Iraq and kill even more of its inhabitants.

 

yes it is all very suspect.. but from what yoru saying it looks like your saying we should never try and correct the wrong.

 

We ( the US/UK ) didn't invade Iraq to right a wrong, as Blair and Bush's utter indifference to the massive civilian death rate demonstrates.

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I like you are very dubious of USA and UK intentions of the Iraq war, but as against the war as i was at the time.. I do now feel that we have to continue with what we started.. and I do also believe in about 30 years time we will look back to the last few years and think it wasn't as totally wrong as I think it is now..

 

Back to the Sadam.. Yes i dont agree that death penelty is right.. I wil alway belive that solitary confinement wil punish anyone far more than anything else. But I aslo belive it is not our right to dictate what goes on in other countries... yes by all means make your point known.. but because we ahppen to think it is wrong does not give us the right to forceable impose our thoughts on others.. you can go on in circles about who started it and who didnt.. but at the end fo the day it is the fact that peopel keep on trying to enforce each another points of views that brings conflict..

 

The way to spread views is by influence not enforcement ( i know youve played civilisation IV :P ) just look at how we are influenced by america ( not a good thing in many ways i wil agree ) as peopel witness other living in peace and happiness ( hippyness aside ) people will eventually grow to want that over violence ..

 

yes im bored at work and waffeling on :P

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I too, agree that - regardless of your views on the war or invasion or illegal action or whatever you want tio call it by, to have left such a man in power would have been an even bigger shame on all our consciences than to have supported a democratically elected government in a lawful action (which at the end of the day, by their laws, his execution was). You can blather on about puppets and strings and oil and money till you're blue in the face and it won't change so much as ONE IOTA (yes, I am "raising my voice") that this man was evil through and through and got a lot more mercy than was ever shown to any of his regime's victims.

 

To quote a great man (I am fond of quotes today, thanks to Babsy's political correctness :wink: ) :-

 

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."

 

Knowing that a great evil is committed and accepting it because to do something to stop it would be too difficult - in my world view - makes you complicit in that evil. A simplistic viewpoint perhaps, but then I never claimed to be complex. As you get older (and older and...) morals and how resolutely you have lived your life means a lot more than it does when you are young and in such a rush to live that life that you sometimes are willing to accept wrongs because "it's someone else's problem" or "life goes on" (and no I'm not saying all young folk are like that, just that maybe I was).

 

I am perhaps rambling myself 8O but what I am trying to say is that if Tony B andf his cronies have done one good thing - even if it was at the beck and call of the USA - then they have still done one good thing.

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"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."

 

Them's powerful words...

 

Knowing that a great evil is committed and accepting it because to do something to stop it would be too difficult - in my world view - makes you complicit in that evil.

 

So's them...

 

So it seems you favour a pro-active, ethical foreign policy do you, whodat?

 

Who's first?

 

Zimbabwe?

 

Burma?

 

There's a bit of a mess in Darfur at the moment.

 

And this is just our ex-colonies...

 

Chechnya?

 

Fiji?

 

Iran?

 

North Korea (No, they set off a nuke, remember)

 

And, of course, the elephant in the corner of the room, COMMUNIST CHINA?

 

Where do you start?

 

Where do you STOP!

 

(Looks like securing your oil supply first wasn't such a bad idea.... ) :twisted:

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