Hell on earth

[Guest Anonymous]

ah its good to see that if you post something that some regard as maybe a bit extreme , that it opens the debate up a bit.

just by posting something in a slightly crude fashion then people get a bit jumpy and suddenly i am seen as some sort of monster.

There are definately many things wrong with the justice system in this country , call me old fashioned , but I still believe that a justice system has to work on the principle that crime equals punishment. And the punishment should be something that suitably fits the crime.

And before you get another twist in your knickers Njugle I am not suggesting you or any body else should get there car taken from them and destroyed for doing 61 0r even 63 mph, niether am I suggesting that pensioners should be publicly stripped naked and flogged for not paying there poll tax.

I am suggesting that for young fit criminals who have been convicted for crimes of violence and robbery should be made to take part in some good old fashioned hard work. perhaps the term hard labour does not sit well with the squeemish types out there who are so worried about breaching the human rights of some thug who may have battered an 80 year old women nearly to death for her pension or the group of maniacs who nearly killed michael black and also the w**kers who nearly kicked tom robertson to death and ruptured his liver , i could go on....

No I think sending them to to the current type of indoor prison where they are fed and watered and kept in warm , dry conditions watching tv and playing pool, snooker etc doing nothing for only half the time they were originally sentenced is not much of a deterrant.

Now when i say hard labour you probably all had visions of them standing in a yard aimlessly breaking stones.

No what i mean is undertaking work that will be of benifit to the communities they are in and the country as a whole we shall refer to it here as enforced national service and yes it should be a twelve hour working day , of course i would be fair and let them have three half hour breaks during that time , in line with the E.U working time directive and which is the same as law abiding citizens who are not in jail recieve.

Much of the work they would undertake would be constructive drystone dykeing , farm work , fishing , forestry , ditch digging, cement mixing etc and would hopefully help build thier self esteem and hopefully help mould them into better members of society

Good old fashioned hard work is character building , teach them the principle that work will set you free.

AS for. sex offenders, well if they have been caught before they have killed somebody they should be castrated , now before everybody goes apeturd on this one they would have to be carefully assesed as to how dangerous they are , I mean you wouldna want to go chopping the bags af o young men in there teens and twenties who have been touping a fourteen or fifteen year old who was a willing participant or shetland would end up as the eunuch capital of europe! a punishment fit for the crime thats what im saying .

And I still think the death penalty is approprite for serial killers and child sex killers , they are better of dead themselves ,taken out from the twisted nightmare in which they live and also saving the taxpayers the money it costs to keep them , there are innocent adults and children who would be alive today if this approach was taken.

Of course I would agree with life imprisonment if there was any doubt in there guilt.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh and by the way njugle I have broken a few laws myself, but i am proud to say i have never injured or robbed anybody.

I got treatment for the flashing at old ladies and I only shat in the roady mens teapot in there teahut once and that was a long time ago.......

[Styles]

Maybe instead of a judge let the jury decide on the punishment (its far more democratic) think their would be a fair lot that didna see tommorrow!

[Njugle]

Sorry droilker, there are no twists in my draars as yet, it's interesting to see a progression of your capital and corporal punishment views. It may surprise you to know that i am not entirely a bleeding-heart liberal myself. My perspective on the matter is that "the devil is in the details", broad sweeping assumptions about how easy it is to kill this one and castrate that one are easy to make about nobody but not so easy when you throw in the vast complexity of human activity. I'm not going to nitpick my way through endless examples, but suffice to say: How about drink drivers then? Driving while under the influence could be so easily be construed as "intent to harm", for instance. And how about drink-drivers who inadvertently kill someone? Execute them, or fine them for a driving offence? The choice is yours....Judge Droilker

[Guest Anonymous]

The death sentence should only be used on serial killers and child rapists/murderers , those for whom rehabilitation is not possible.

I know that these people would then be regarded as insane and of course here is another taboo , that it is not right to execute someone who is not in control of there own mind.

This is probably a touchy subject if you start executing the criminally insane.

But the way i look at it if a dog has ripped a childs face apart or if it has been caught worrying sheep , then it will get a bullet as you know it can never be trusted.

And i think the same rule should apply for remorseless killers, of course there are different levels of murder , crimes of passion etc and I would not reccomend they are all executed, some of them could benefit society through enforced work programs , but the likes of myra hindley , ian brady , peter sutcliffe, rose west etc etc they are nothing more than a waste of oxygen and it annoys me that that the taxpayer foots the bill for their existence.

At the other end of the scale there are some first time offenders who should get help and councilling but thats what social enquiries are supposed to find out.

[JAStewart]

The death sentence should only be used on serial killers and child rapists/murderers , those for whom rehabilitation is not possible.

 

I disagree. Rehabilitation is difficult, but not impossible. Death sentence should never be used.

 

I know that these people would then be regarded as insane and of course here is another taboo , that it is not right to execute someone who is not in control of there own mind. This is probably a touchy subject if you start executing the criminally insane.

 

Again, some might not be Criminally Insane, and might just have some slight mental problems, which psychology can help sort out. People who have committed huge crime really can change, check out Tookie Williams for example. He was in a gang for years, murdered many people, went on death row for many many years, and before he was executed, he had written a childrens book, and was nominated for an award. But what happened? The US government shot itself in the foot by killing a reformed prisoner. He was an example of a success story for rehabilitation - perhaps he could have been an inspiration to hundreds of young black men who thought of joining the Cribs/Bloods, but no. Executed, gone, wasted.

 

But the way i look at it if a dog has ripped a childs face apart or if it has been caught worrying sheep , then it will get a bullet as you know it can never be trusted.

 

Are you comparing an animal to a human here? Thats mental. The reason that one couldn't trust a dog again is because dogs do not feel remorse/guilt and thus cannot accept the consequences for their actions!

 

And i think the same rule should apply for remorseless killers, of course there are different levels of murder , crimes of passion etc and I would not reccomend they are all executed, some of them could benefit society through enforced work programs , but the likes of myra hindley , ian brady , peter sutcliffe, rose west etc etc they are nothing more than a waste of oxygen and it annoys me that that the taxpayer foots the bill for their existence.

 

Rather than murder - why not solitary confinement?

[JAStewart]

ah its good to see that if you post something that some regard as maybe a bit extreme , that it opens the debate up a bit.

just by posting something in a slightly crude fashion then people get a bit jumpy and suddenly i am seen as some sort of monster.

 

Slightly crude?

 

"It should be hard labour , kept on a compound within unheated barracks and marched out every day to do 12 hours work the old fashioned way." - Droilker

 

"yes i was wrong to say that they should all be given hard labour, serious sex offenders, child killer etc should be executed. " - Droilker

 

 

 

There are definately many things wrong with the justice system in this country , call me old fashioned , but I still believe that a justice system has to work on the principle that crime equals punishment.

 

What about crime equals treatment? Like I've said, every single case needs to be looked into.

 

And the punishment should be something that suitably fits the crime.

And before you get another twist in your knickers Njugle I am not suggesting you or any body else should get there car taken from them and destroyed for doing 61 0r even 63 mph, niether am I suggesting that pensioners should be publicly stripped naked and flogged for not paying there poll tax.

 

Njugle didn't break any law there, you're allowed to go 10% over the speed limit = 66mph.

 

 

I am suggesting that for young fit criminals who have been convicted for crimes of violence and robbery should be made to take part in some good old fashioned hard work. perhaps the term hard labour does not sit well with the squeemish types out there who are so worried about breaching the human rights of some thug who may have battered an 80 year old women nearly to death for her pension or the group of maniacs who nearly killed michael black and also the w**kers who nearly kicked tom robertson to death and ruptured his liver , i could go on....

 

On the young thugs issue. I agree that they piss me off, but thats not me being very diplomatic. I think that there should be research into a drug/treatment that completely diffuses the effect of alcohol and drugs on the body, so essentially if these youths repeated their attack, and if it was alcohol fueled, they would be given this treatment. Bye-bye drunkeness and drug enduced trance for the rest of their lives. Personally I think that that would come as the biggest loss to them.

 

Good old fashioned hard work is character building , teach them the principle that work will set you free.

 

No, surely the moral here is crime=work. And hard labour will put them off... working! I agree they should do community services however I do not believe that it should be hard labour. It could have an adverse effect.

 

 

 

AS for. sex offenders, well if they have been caught before they have killed somebody they should be castrated , now before everybody goes apeturd on this one they would have to be carefully assesed as to how dangerous they are , I mean you wouldna want to go chopping the bags af o young men in there teens and twenties who have been touping a fourteen or fifteen year old who was a willing participant or shetland would end up as the eunuch capital of europe! a punishment fit for the crime thats what im saying .

 

I agree with clinical castration. Repeated offender should be castrated.

 

And I still think the death penalty is approprite for serial killers and child sex killers , they are better of dead themselves ,taken out from the twisted nightmare in which they live and also saving the taxpayers the money it costs to keep them , there are innocent adults and children who would be alive today if this approach was taken.

 

What if these people are victims of society? Do you care? Do you care that they maybe WANT to be human again? Do you view these humans as humans? This isn't animals we are talking about, its human beings.

[whodat]

JAS, according to experts on the matter - i.e. Social Workers, police and probation working with sex offenders, there has never been a serial sex offender successfully rehabilitated. That's their words, not mine. All they can do is manage them and wait for teh day they reoffend andf try and stop them from doing it by more and more stringenmt conditions on them.

 

Violence and alcohol are diferent matters it seems, and they can - often but not always - be rehabilitated.

 

As for those who are abused and go on to abuse - NOT AN EXCUSE and never will be. Someone who has endured that kind of pain does not want to cayuse it to another unless they have grown to enjoy it. In which case, see paragraph 1.

 

I heard a friend ssay they had been told by a policeman that, in their opinion, sex xrimes were worse than murder because you can only kill someone the once. Whereas with sex crime victims, especially the children, they have a life sentence ahead of them and will suffer long after their attackers have done their four years (if they're lucky) in a soft unit, "counseled" at great expense and earning money while they are at it. I don't know what the answer is, but some folk, including the former governor of a prison think it should be longer sentences for sex criminals as they are not inside long enough to go through the counseling and asessment needed to identify how big a threat they are to the rest of uis (the ex-giovernor of Inverness Prison said that just the other week). Look at cases like Colin Ross and you may agree (he's the man who attacked the Ameerican toursit by Loch Ness aftrer early release for his second sex offence. She has since died from her injuries ).

Its a difficult one. I did a wee stretch as a young man, back in the "Porridge" days and it was not pleasant and didnt make me want to do it again (I hammered a man while drunk for something he said to my girlfreind- I have not drunk since and I am still ashamed today). But it has changed so much since then. Not enough prison officers, more freedom for prisoners to supervise themsleves almost, Playstations in the cells (my freidn's nephew had one in his) and a general lack of respect/contempt for authority that has been the same across the rest of society. It is a bigger issue than just the prisons inn my humble opinion. If I had the answer, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this, I'd be minted!

[Malachy]

As for those who are abused and go on to abuse - NOT AN EXCUSE and never will be. Someone who has endured that kind of pain does not want to cause it to another unless they have grown to enjoy it.

 

There was much wrong with your post, whodat, but that was surely the most offensive comment. In fact, it was possibly the most offensive I have ever seen on Shetlink. You are suggesting that if a child is raped or abused by their parents, and they then go on to physically or mentally abuse their own children, it is because they "enjoyed" being raped!! Not because the abuse has damaged them emotionally, or affected their ability to control anger or express love, but because they enjoyed it.

 

I don't really know how to comment on that. I truly can't understand how someone could think that way. Life must be so simple for you.

[Twerto]

I wouldnt of used the word Enjoy.. but they could be "abused" to a point that what is happening to them becomes the norm.. especially if it is a family member doign the abusing.

[Guest Anonymous]

yes it sunday dinner at J A Stewarts house , " weel peter sutcliffe and jeffrey daimer is comin alang fur a grain o sunday roast , just watch what you say tae jeffrey about da roast beef , he use tae lure young men tae his hoose we da promise o gay sex and dan murder dem , have sex we der dead bodies and maybe eat der testicles fur a bit o snack , peter ach weel yea you can hae a fun we him after aa a hed did wis cave prostitutes head in we hammer fur kicks.

But dae both said dee want tae be human again so weel give dem da benifit o da doubt dis time.....

[JAStewart]

Just because I understand that people who commit crime aren't always just 'bad people' who need to be locked up and the key thrown away does not mean I am a Ripper sympathizer. Next you'll be telling us that people who are depressed should be killed just so they don't go killing themselves.

[Malachy]

I wouldnt of used the word Enjoy.. but they could be "abused" to a point that what is happening to them becomes the norm.. especially if it is a family member doing the abusing.

 

Yes, and that is the point. Abuse can become the norm, at which point that person cannot be regarded as fully responsible for their actions. Their ability to distinguish right from wrong can be distorted, in which case, that person needs help, not hard labour.

 

whodat said that he assaulted someone in the past. His excuse was that he was drunk. So he gave up drinking. A person who has been abused cannot "give up" the effect of the abuse. Putting them in prison (particularly with the level of brutality being proposed in this thread) just exposes them to more anger and more abuse, and their problems will never end. Society must find a better solution.

[Njugle]

Yes droilker, if we are to draw nonsensical analogies here, yes lets invite them around to dinner, but wait! You think that thieves and other criminals should not be executed, so therefore you must want them to visit your house for dinner, along with all the drug barons, fraudsters, violent thugs (on their 30 minute dinner break from hard labour, of course). What an interesting meal we shall have! , clearing up should be easy, once all your furniture and cutlery has been stolen.

 

I do not like wasps droilker, they do nobody any good, but i do not feel it is my place to eradicate them from existance. They have as much right to be here as i do. However, nor do i wish to stick my hand in their nest, just because i think they have a right to life.

 

I think the logical progression of your form of justice would be to genetically test the unborn for criminal genes and terminate them before they are born, no?

[Guest Anonymous]

sorry about that one J A , I have noted amongst these posts that although we disagree , we also have some common ground where we agree , you are saying not all criminals are bad people , i agreee.

And I am saying that not all criminals are good people , and there for the law abiding members of society deserve protection from them.

To get back to what this debate is all about, I am convinced the present prison system does not rehabilitate the majority of offenders and we the tax payer keeps these people roofed , fed and watered .

Therefor i think they should be made to earn this charity we bestow upon them and be marched oot o there beds every morning for a good hard days work , whats wrong we that? I have been happily putting in good hard days work steady for the last 20 years now and It has done me nothing but good.

as for the serial killers etc , I still believe you would be doing the poor deranged b**terds a favour to dispatch them with a shot to the back of the head.