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Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue


madcow
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Fuel for the fire.....

 

Here's a few articles concerning the CMV I found online

 

http://www.shetlandtoday.co.uk/Shetlandtimes/content_details.asp?ContentID=18691

This article features proposed plans and illustrations of the venue and an in-depth review of the progress/plans so far

 

http://www.shetlandtoday.co.uk/Shetlandtimes/content_details.asp?ContentID=18692

This is an article by Jo Jamieson, trustee of the Arts Trust, in support of the venue

 

http://www.netribution.co.uk/2/content/view/280/182/

A report from the "netribution" website about the recent public meeting at the Garrison

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Guest Anonymous

 

I've had a quick look at the business plan and there are some (to my mind) ridiculous projections. I'll speak about just 2 of them.

 

Lies, Damned Lies and, Business Plans :lol:

 

I have to admit that I have never seen a credible business plan (and I've seen a few). Most are built around 'assumtions' that seem to have been reached without any valid research.

 

A really good test for the funding of the proposed venue would be to present the business plan to a bank. If they would finance it.....

 

As an aside;

My Council Tax bill shows an increase of more than £200 this year and the 'pro' lobby are glibly stating that an extra £80,000 (their figure not mine. More likely 4 or 5 times that in my estimation) is 'insignificant' against the overall spend. Yeah..

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Guest Anonymous

This of course in no way either hampers or negates other more formal discussions taking place with all officially interested parties.

 

Discussions are ongoing as we speak in this respect and the public will be officially informed shortly.

 

Ok, thanks.

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Ok, thanks
Some people putting 2 and 2 together might come up with 5 :?

Please, please refrain from annonymous one liners. Explain what you mean. Your could be saying almost anything. Quoting sections of text followed by a meaningless follow up only serves to make the thread difficult to follow. As Marvin so eloquently put it only a few posts ago....

 

...your comment could be read to mean loads of different things...........Please consider that one liners are often very difficult to interpret and although you may have a message in your head, a bit of an explanation will make your point a lot easier to understand. Cheers, Marvin
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Guest Anonymous
Been thinking about venues. I am a Wurzles fan but frankly I am too old to be going to the North Star so missed their gig here. Will anyone agree with me that co-operation between existing venues and the proposed new venue could work to generate extra income by providing a comfortable seated gig for those that want to listen and a North Star type gig for those who want to "get up and boogie" or whatever they call it now.

 

Incidently there was an "anti venue" petition available to sign in Don Leslies this morning.

 

Then you don't need to build a new venue for this. Improve the seating in the Garrison so you can have your "comfortable seated gig" and still go to the North star for a dancy gig.

 

thats a great idea, the garrison seats were soposed to be replaced this year due to the over all plan from its last refit, this money is now nowhare to be seen. surly if the council stick to that plan we would not be moaning about the quality of the seats, mind you they are a lot beter than some of the big theaters south - and you have to pay £20 a time for them!

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Its all in the business plan from the worst possible scenario (a loss) to the best possible (a profit)

 

I've had a quick look at the business plan and there are some (to my mind) ridiculous projections. I'll speak about just 2 of them.

 

1. Food and drink income, over £500k per annum. If you take a maximum operational year at 360 days that's an average of just over £1400 per day, EVERY day. There is no way enough money floating around to earn that much income. I wonder what for example the Legion's income is per annum?

 

2. 237 musical events per annum. Way too many. The latest show in the Garrison, Absolute Swing is on for three nights and hasn't sold out. It's done by a group who come to Shetland once a year and have built up a good fan base. Two shows normally sell out so this year the Garrison is doing 3 shows. My point is, if they can't sell out 840 tickets once a year how on earth is the new venue going to attract over 1000 customers EVERY week.

 

My overall point is that I think the business plan is seriously flawed and bears little relation to what's actually happening in Shetland just now. Their projected useage just doesn't add up - even with tourists.

 

The SIC have made a decision based on this business plan - and that's what worries me.

 

I'm not wholly against some kind of venue - I would like to see a lot more consultation before our money is committed.

 

I think a referendum is a splendid idea if only to gauge what everyone in Shetland thinks.

 

These figures are a joke 500k for food !!. Most bars in Lerwick don't turnover 500k. The mind boggles!

 

 

 

 

Please note the figure includes food and drink. Thanks.

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Guest Anonymous
Its all in the business plan from the worst possible scenario (a loss) to the best possible (a profit)

 

I've had a quick look at the business plan and there are some (to my mind) ridiculous projections. I'll speak about just 2 of them.

 

1. Food and drink income, over £500k per annum. If you take a maximum operational year at 360 days that's an average of just over £1400 per day, EVERY day. There is no way enough money floating around to earn that much income. I wonder what for example the Legion's income is per annum?

 

2. 237 musical events per annum. Way too many. The latest show in the Garrison, Absolute Swing is on for three nights and hasn't sold out. It's done by a group who come to Shetland once a year and have built up a good fan base. Two shows normally sell out so this year the Garrison is doing 3 shows. My point is, if they can't sell out 840 tickets once a year how on earth is the new venue going to attract over 1000 customers EVERY week.

 

My overall point is that I think the business plan is seriously flawed and bears little relation to what's actually happening in Shetland just now. Their projected useage just doesn't add up - even with tourists.

 

The SIC have made a decision based on this business plan - and that's what worries me.

 

I'm not wholly against some kind of venue - I would like to see a lot more consultation before our money is committed.

 

I think a referendum is a splendid idea if only to gauge what everyone in Shetland thinks.

 

These figures are a joke 500k for food !!. Most bars in Lerwick don't turnover 500k. The mind boggles!

 

 

 

 

Please note the figure includes food and drink. Thanks.

 

This is exactly the point the shetland people are worried about - any report can say things the way the people writing it can doctor it so it 'make it sound good'. but no actual fact if they would ever have a contract to get them, this is exactly why the western Isles cinema went flat on its face.

 

This is one point the Arts Trust dream list does not cover

 

another point i have heard of is in 'the' report it aparently states some thing like - for a cinema to operate sucesfully the films should be showen as near to the releise date as possible.

 

The councelers read this as " oh that sounds fine" but the relality is that WE would NEVER get films near the releise date. In an independent cinema - as stated many times in this forum and the other one - local small cinemas only get film copies after the big cinemas are finished with them - usualy 3 - 4 weeks after they come out.

 

like in Orkney and the Western Isles the films are anchent!

 

This small but very importaint fact has been obmited from the report.

 

glossing over 'dreams' as 'facts' do misslead everyone

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This is exactly the point the shetland people are worried about - any report can say things the way the people writing it can doctor it so it 'make it sound good'. but no actual fact if they would ever have a contract to get them, this is exactly why the western Isles cinema went flat on its face.

 

This is one point the Arts Trust dream list does not cover

 

another point i have heard of is in 'the' report it aparently states some thing like - for a cinema to operate sucesfully the films should be showen as near to the releise date as possible.

 

The councelers read this as " oh that sounds fine" but the relality is that WE would NEVER get films near the releise date. In an independent cinema - as stated many times in this forum and the other one - local small cinemas only get film copies after the big cinemas are finished with them - usualy 3 - 4 weeks after they come out.

 

like in Orkney and the Western Isles the films are anchent!

 

This small but very importaint fact has been obmited from the report.

 

glossing over 'dreams' as 'facts' do misslead everyone

 

 

 

 

 

All I want is to cut through the hype, rhetoric and spin and get some real facts and some REALISTIC projections.

 

Only then will people be able to make informed decisions.

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Yes they are, but when I've mentioned figures from the business plan to Davie he has repeatedly said that I have been quoting an old business plan. There may be different versions on the go.

 

 

 

 

The business plan I'm looking at is dated 16th March 2006.

I'm assuming it's the latest one but am happy to be corrected.

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The business plan I'm looking at is dated 16th March 2006.

I'm assuming it's the latest one but am happy to be corrected.

 

That must be the newest one.

 

I presume it is in the public domain. If it was considered at services committee then surely it must be in the public domain? Davie?

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Ok, thanks
Some people putting 2 and 2 together might come up with 5 :?

Please, please refrain from annonymous one liners. Explain what you mean. Your could be saying almost anything. Quoting sections of text followed by a meaningless follow up only serves to make the thread difficult to follow. As Marvin so eloquently put it only a few posts ago....

 

...your comment could be read to mean loads of different things...........Please consider that one liners are often very difficult to interpret and although you may have a message in your head, a bit of an explanation will make your point a lot easier to understand. Cheers, Marvin

 

One line, in fact one word, is often all it takes.

 

Taxi!

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Moving away from the reasoned ethical debate for a moment - I can’t see any need for a cinema because I don’t particularly like going out to see a film. I’m not going to campaign against it though because I’m prepared to believe that others do and will want to use it. I do think that including it has caused an unnecessary distraction when surely the main reason for the build is the music venue (i'm sure others would disagree). The venue will provide a high class music venue for showcasing and developing Shetland’s talent which is arguably worth the large investment…..the cinema will provide (at best) a decent venue for showing Hollywood’s films…… Could the main venue hall not be dual purpose?

 

Good points again Marvin.

 

Given there was such public demand for both venues (even more for cinema than music - especially among younger age groups) it was seen as being highlly cost effective to bring both projects together under one roof with one set of services and one set of staff.

 

As you will note the plan is for a two screen cinema to provide viewing options for customers rather than having the same film showing all week in one unit. However in the updated plan this will not now be a dedicated two screen cinema. There will just be one (as the public seem to think is fair) but a second screen will be provided either in the main auditorium or another suitable existing 'room' - hence given the option for additional / alternative showings (and potentially additional customers)

 

Again the cinema was seen, given the strength of public opinion (yes it does exist) as worth having as a seperate entity so you could have both cinema customers and potentially music customers in the venue at the same time (or at slightly different times at least) therby maximising potential trade. See above 'one set of staff' issue.

 

Believe it or not, if the facility is provided, it does not take many people of an evening to make things pay.

 

I dont know the details but some have pointed out that the numbers in the Garrison are fallling. This may or may not be the case whatever angle you look at it from but this does not seem to be threatening the commitment of Film Mobile Scotland so things must still be reasonably healthy in that respect and profits to justify him coming here and staying at least once a month worth the effort.

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I think it would be the Dolby Surround Sound system that would give a great cinema experience, not the acoustics of the room. Will the main venue hall be equipped with this, as well as the cinema area? Adds a few more quid to the bill if its to be installed in both areas.

 

Its takes both of course. You can have a great PA anywhere but if the building is wrong it still sounds poor.

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Its all in the business plan from the worst possible scenario (a loss) to the best possible (a profit)

 

I've had a quick look at the business plan and there are some (to my mind) ridiculous projections. I'll speak about just 2 of them.

 

1. Food and drink income, over £500k per annum. If you take a maximum operational year at 360 days that's an average of just over £1400 per day, EVERY day. There is no way enough money floating around to earn that much income. I wonder what for example the Legion's income is per annum?

 

2. 237 musical events per annum. Way too many. The latest show in the Garrison, Absolute Swing is on for three nights and hasn't sold out. It's done by a group who come to Shetland once a year and have built up a good fan base. Two shows normally sell out so this year the Garrison is doing 3 shows. My point is, if they can't sell out 840 tickets once a year how on earth is the new venue going to attract over 1000 customers EVERY week.

 

My overall point is that I think the business plan is seriously flawed and bears little relation to what's actually happening in Shetland just now. Their projected useage just doesn't add up - even with tourists.

 

The SIC have made a decision based on this business plan - and that's what worries me.

 

I'm not wholly against some kind of venue - I would like to see a lot more consultation before our money is committed.

 

I think a referendum is a splendid idea if only to gauge what everyone in Shetland thinks.

 

Everyone is entitled to their view and you make some well focused views on the business plan of course, but more that one set of consutants (love them or hate them we have to have some process of this kind), a number of them with local knowledge, have gone back to this time and again and used many existing local figures to compile the existing document, so at some point we have to accept their 'average' findings.

 

Just one question why must be always look at how things are "at the moment" rather than how they could potentially be given the information to hand? We can only go on what people tell us but I agree who knows how it will actually be when the time comes - we can only go on information as it exists and seek to act on that rather than say "nonsence - we know better" without having done alternative research. If we only looked at how things actually are at present with any existing service, not just the social scene, rather than where they might potentially go we would never move ahead.

 

As to just one income stream the £1400 per day. Well just ask the pubs!!! I will not mention names but I know for a fact that some pubs (not saying that the venue is a pub of course) have banked a lot more than this for one average afternoons takings (many times more in fact) and taking in £1400 on a fairly active night, let alone a full day of other developmental, activities (whatever they may be) might not prove too demanding a challenge.

 

Of course some will say that there are days when they take in nothing near this figure but as they have also pointed it our its a matter of swings and roundabouts adding up to a daily average.

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