Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[spencey7]

A "state aid complaint".

 

This would be funny, if it wasn't so petty, ridiculous and childish in the extreme.

 

Question - Can any random lunatic lodge one of these complaints? Or do you have to be of a certain standing, or work in a particular sector?

 

I cannot wait for the identity of this "anonymous complainer" to be revealed (which will obviously happen). He or she is guilty of Forvik-esque levels of stupidity.

 

Take the toys back in the pram and accept the following:

 

MAREEL: OPENING 2010.

[JohanofNess]

With the greatest of respect, I think you might be falling foul of the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Economists generally believe that you shouldn't take money you've already spent into account when making decisions about the future. In other words, don't throw good money after bad.

 

Difference is Inky that the project has already been greenlit by the self same people who delayed and in doing so increased the cost of it. The same people who represent the people of Shetland. They have created the scenario where unnecessary money will be thrown away probably in excess of what has already been spent. So I have no sympathy for anyone that throws good money after any money. As I said before the council shouldn't be the ones to build this but since they are pulling out now is the act of a bunch of havering idiots who can't get the balls to make a decision and stick with it.

[Infiltrator]

I personally have no objection to the place being built my objection is how it is being funded, this isn't something the council should be funding to the tune that it is

 

My point precisely, I could't care if it was a music venue or a world class venue for Fair Isle knitting. It's claimed to be a profitable self funding business why should it be built using public funds?

 

I've said before on this thread - stuff it, build Mareel, a new AHS and a few dozen windmills, blow the whole CT and then the council have have to live within their means.

[ArabiaTerra]

I wonder if I can make a "State Aid Complaint" about the 1 million plus £'s that is spent annually subsidizing our ridiculous over provision of sport facilities?

[WiiMan]

Should we spend millions of pounds just so the council can save face ?

 

Is it the whole council or just Cluness who is trying to save face? This is beginning to look more and more like the Bressa Brig fiasco all over again.

 

The man is just determined to unveil a shiny plaque on something at any cost. I would suggest the new toilets on the esplanade would be fitting given all the money he has flushed down the pan!

[TeeAyBee]

will you please stop feeding the troll?

[Skyumpi]

I am not trolling here - just offering a different viewpoint, there is a difference.

 

A couple of observations:

 

Baron Farkoff makes several contradictions in what he says. It's OK to compare us with the rest of the country when it suits but he is ready to cry foul when the circumstances don't fit his viewpoint.

 

If I was a local businessman who had put in the hours to build up a successful business that sold say, for example, eggs to make my living and then the council announced that they were going to spend several million pounds of public money building a magnificent cultural edifice that would attract many to buy the world class cheese that Shetland produced (but as an aside would also sell eggs to cash in on the many people who would pass through it gates to spend their finite amount of money) then I don't think that I would be out of order to feel aggrieved.

If no-one had offered me millions when I was struggling to set up a business and some of the Shetland Arts people offered me up as some sort cultural saboteur when I tried to make myself heard then I'd probably be quite rightly pee'd off.

 

I think that the notion that the rest of the world is laughing at us exists only inside the minds of those for whom the development of Mareel has a large significance. It really is not that big a deal. A purpose built musical venue would hopefully be a real asset to Shetland but the idea bandied about that our young will leave these isles in droves should it not happen

It's scaremongering on a level that would nearly embarass a Viking Energy or Sustainable Shetland press officer when it comes to sensationalism.

[Evil Inky]

will you please stop feeding the troll?

I'm not trolling: I'm someone who is not entirely convinced that we should be spending £X million on a music venue-cum-arts centre-cum-rehearsal studio; in my opinion, we need better reasons to build it than "we don't have one already", and "local music needs a home to call its own".

[WiiMan]

will you please stop feeding the troll?

 

Troll? Is that the name given to anyone who expresses a view against Mareel?

 

The July issue of the Executive Magazine has an interesting article about a 19 year old girl in Inverness who used her INITIATIVE not to mention her OWN MONEY to build a state of the art recording studio in a disused store at the ice rink. It makes very interesting reading. http://www.executive-magazine.co.uk/business/default.asp

 

Clearly this would never work here.

[Mag]

If I was a local businessman who had put in the hours to build up a successful business that sold say, for example, eggs to make my living and then the council announced that they were going to spend several million pounds of public money building a magnificent cultural edifice that would attract many to buy the world class cheese that Shetland produced (but as an aside would also sell eggs to cash in on the many people who would pass through it gates to spend their finite amount of money) then I don't think that I would be out of order to feel aggrieved.

The buisiness that is aggrieved about Mareel is not the wholesome-sounding egg trade, but the licenced trade. They are concerned that they might sell less alchohol when Mareel opens. But the projected income from alchohol for Mareel cannot be nearly enough to make a serious dent in the collective turnover of our many pubs. So are the licenced trade worried that folk will go en masse to Mareel and (shock horror) NOT drink? And how does this new concern sit with their previous arguement that Mareel will be an underused white elephant? If the bar in Mareel was put out to franchise there would be no element of 'state aid', but I suspect that would not satisfy the vocal anti-Mareel lobby.

[Mag]

we need better reasons to build it than "we don't have one already", and "local music needs a home to call its own".

Fair point.

 

My reasons for building Mareel:

Our young folk passionately want Mareel

With our aging population our young folk are our future

I would rather live in a community with a culture of film and music than a culture of alcohol

The business plan has been rigorously scutinised, and it works; we can do it.

 

What reasons do other folk have?

[Infiltrator]

I would rather live in a community with a culture of film and music than a culture of alcohol

 

Mareel's projections of £400,000 per year takings for the bar/cafe suggests to me that it'll be very difficult to avoid alcohol in the place.

 

I'm afraid Shetland has a culture of alcohol, every event you seem to attend seems to have a busy bar or beer tent.

 

Mareel without a bar might have broken this mould, but I guess the performing arts folks use the stuff to stimulate their creative minds..

[Talpa]

I honestly believe that those who are aggresively against Mareel don't understand the economic arguments for being part of the growing creative industries in the UK. It's happening now. Why shouldn't Shetland be part of that? We need new industries. Mareel will provide infrastructure/ training/ a professsional centre of excellence (pages and pages of these arguments in this thread)

 

It's fair enough not to understand if you don't work in the industry BUT PLEASE listen to and trust those who do so that we can show you.

 

Just been south to a music/ film-making event and yes, they are talking about this and yes, they do know Shetland's reputation for talent and yes, they want to come here and yes, they want to do business with us and yes, they think we have poor/ expensive music/ film facilities now and yes, they would come more and include us in tours and programming if we did and YES they have heard and are stunned and bemused by the aggresive anti-Mareel stuff.

 

Reasonable questions and doubts YES, of course, but the aggressive, hostile or negative tactics are not doing Shetland any good. I've heard it.

 

And - why are anonymous complainers and some sections of the licensed trade so against a project that could seriously reduce underage and excessive drinking in Shetland by providing something else to do...oh... hang on... ah, I see....

 

But, it's so short-sighted. Just because folk may be at a film rather than getting steaming in the pub or quaffing White Diamond in the park doesn't mean the pubs will suffer - the businesses may change that's all - more week day business, pre-cinema menus etc.? Surely the possibilities are there for the creative landlord.... with a bit of initiative...

[Talpa]

Mareel's projections of £400,000 per year takings for the bar/cafe suggests to me that it'll be very difficult to avoid alcohol in the place.

 

I'm afraid Shetland has a culture of alcohol, every event you seem to attend seems to have a busy bar or beer tent.

 

Mareel without a bar might have broken this mould, but I guess the performing arts folks use the stuff to stimulate their creative minds..

 

How can this nasty sticking point about £400,000 in the cafe be logical?

 

How can it be:

 

A wild over-estimate.

 

(OK, replace that figure with the boost to the local economy by a growth in the creative industries which CANNOT be included in the business plan - and is probably much more than £400,000)

 

And at the same time be encouraging boozing?

 

(If it is an over-estimate because people won't have a pint and a sandwich then there is nothing to worry about.)

 

It doesn't add up - not the figures - the argument.

 

And 'cafe income' and 'booze sales' seems to have become one in the same. Big difference between £400,000 of hard drink and £400,000 of sandwiches, pies, fancies, soup, coffees, teas, juice, and yes, a glass of wine or a pint.

[Infiltrator]

Tapla, I don't dispute anything you've said, it's how it's being financed by public money that I (and most others) object to.

The money in the Charitable Trust belongs to the whole population of Shetland and a growing number of residents are fed up of the money being squandered on ill fated projects.

 

The Mareel project risk sits 100% with the council.

 

The council produced some figures a few years ago that from £125 million in grants from the CT, they had only recovered something in the region of £4 or £5 million. Were this a real company, the CT would have gone to the wall long ago.

 

If the Charitable Trust cash wasn't available, where would this project be I wonder? Probably filed in the 'too difficult' tray.