Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[merryholm]

Mareel, particularly in the current economic climate, ought to be shelved forthwith. (snip)

 

And that has what to do with audience attendance figures what precisely?

 

The fact of the matter is, Mareel is getting built, by mandate of a democratically carried vote and a huge amount of money which is completely external to Shetland.

 

And what about the revenue cost of maintaining this and other useless projects such as the Scalloway College and its accommodation block ... another Goodlad legacy which contributes nothing worthwile - ask any fisherman what he thinks! The fact of the matter is that most of the Councillors have little or no experience of business and managing significant capital projects effectively. Name me one who has been a success in business in his/her own right? In the main they are failed business people and retired officials. Democracy? What a joke! Abolish the public sector I say as it offers the consumer no choice and very poor value indeed. Basic economics and common sense ought to be taught in our schools as it appears to me as if too few have a grasp on reality. Perhaps that says something of the the nonsence being advocated from this marxist Executive which has created a culture of subsidy junkies ... just take a look at crofting for example - it contributes nothing and is based on a system on state handouts for doing **** all (eg RSS; grants for fatty lambs no-one wants). This country is a mess as a consequence and the chickens will come home to roost very soon to the detriment of all of us!!. Merryholm.

[Carlos]

Abolish the public sector I say as it offers the consumer no choice and very poor value indeed.

Never mind eh, the private contractors are being asked to come up with suggestions that could lower the building costs for Mareel, so I expect that'll fix things?

[merryholm]

Abolish the public sector I say as it offers the consumer no choice and very poor value indeed.

Never mind eh, the private contractors are being asked to come up with suggestions that could lower the building costs for Mareel, so I expect that'll fix things?

 

I remain unconvinced ... the local economy (and in particular the building industry) is overheated and no value will be achieved on behalf of the taxpayer for any capital project at the moment. Why? What do you think the problem is - I'll give you a clue .... it's something to do with the public sector and its inability to feed contracts into the system at a level which stimulates competition. The new AHS is an example. It is more realistic (then Mareeel anyway) when looked at on its own merits but in the context of other capital projects running in tandem is entirely mis-timed and again will represent poor value for the taxpayer. Business acumen and common sense have again gone "out of the window" becuase there is little understanding of such fundamantal issues in the powers that be. Why do you think you can't get a joiner or plumber for love nor money at the moment? Think about what's actually going on from a business perspective rather than trying to be "pc" and cool. It's not that difficult really and a modicum of common sense and perspective I think will go a long way. Merryholm.

[Ghostrider]

The fact of the matter is that most of the Councillors have little or no experience of business and managing significant capital projects effectively. Name me one who has been a success in business in his/her own right? In the main they are failed business people and retired officials.

 

I'll agree that in the main too many Councillors are failed business people and former public sector senior staff, but I could certainly name some, certainly a lot more than one, who are successful businesspeople as well. I'll refrain for now, as although they may be a success when its their own money and future that's on the line, I would struggle to name one who has brought that same business skills with them to the Council Chamber when it has been public funds and Shetland's collective future that has been on the line.

[merryholm]

The fact of the matter is that most of the Councillors have little or no experience of business and managing significant capital projects effectively. Name me one who has been a success in business in his/her own right? In the main they are failed business people and retired officials.

 

I'll agree that in the main too many Councillors are failed business people and former public sector senior staff, but I could certainly name some, certainly a lot more than one, who are successful businesspeople as well.

 

Who are they? You'll not be doing them a disservice after all! There aren't any and that's why they are there in the first place. Seriously name me one who has been succussful in their own right and not anyone who has inherited an interest in a family business ... please! We are being led by supposed business entrepeneurs who quite simply don't have a clue. Merryholm.

[Carlos]

Why do you think you can't get a joiner or plumber for love nor money at the moment?

But there are no big capital projects being built at the moment, so when would the slack be that would be a good time to drop a £50M project into the economy?

While the council programme could be phased to smooth out the spend, it could realistically only be done by delaying projects that were ready to go until other projects had been completed. That would have the plus of reducing the rate of spend, but councillors in Shetland only get re-elected if they manage to maintain the public perception of getting benefits to their area....... Delaying a project will lose the local councillor votes, and not really gain any for any other councillor, unless they use the temporary spare cash to push something in their own area forward..... causing the same problem again.

 

Without a local party political system there is little long term "for the good of Shetland" thinking in the day to day decisions. Witness the change in the capital project evaluation scheme away from solid numbers to a more "flexible" system, allowing councillors to push for whatever they want..... swiftly followed by the decision to pass the whole list back to the Infrastructure Services director when faced by the reality of 200 projects to put into some order.....

[Ghostrider]

^^You're moving the goalposts a bit now, firstly it was "name a successful businessperson who is also a councillor", now its "name a successful businessperson, who didn't inherit a share in a business, who is also a councillor". That aside, I would hope you would agree that in the case of where a business was inherited solely by a person who is currently a councillor, that where that inherited business has now become a far larger/more bouyant/more profitable business than the one which was inherited, it is down to the talents, work and judgements of the current owner as much as to previous owners.

 

Someone who inherits a business may have something of a leg up to begin with, but you cannot avoid acknowledging that the credit for ongoing growth and success of a business, any business, be it inherited, purchased or founded, lies with the person behind it.

 

Taking the list of Councillors in alphabetical order, I would describe the following as "successful in business".

 

J. Budge - Agriculture. Certainly it was inherited, but has seen significant investments, improvements etc, and probably a corresponding increase in profits under current ownership.

 

A. Doull - Agriculture, and I'm led to believe fish farming. Don't know a great deal to be honest, but the impression has always been one of a successful business.

 

A. Duncan - Agriculture. Again, mostly inherited, but investments etc have been made which should have raised profitability.

 

R. Henderson - Shop, haulage business, ice making, probably more. I don't know if anything was inherited or not, but the business is certainly a far bigger concern today than 30 years ago.

 

J. Henry - Skipper, probably shareholder of one of the first purse net boats. A profitable boat as far as has ever been made public knowledge.

 

J. Simpson - Skipper, probably shareholder of one of the first purse net boats, and successful enough to be getting a new boat built every few years for a time.

 

C. Smith - Owned?/Ran a car hire firm that flourished.

 

I stand corrected on any inaccuracies among the above, which is simply quoting public knowledge. I could add other Councillors to the list who appear to being doing just fine in business, but my knowledge of them is considerably less.

[snow]

I know this is nothing to do with Mareel but it is to do with fundingI have been told by our local Housing and Technical Officers that we here in Firth ar not going to get replacement Kitchens/ bathrooms ( which were supposed to be done under the 5 year Rolling Programme) Reason.....There is No Money to pay for them....Some of the kitchens here are so bad they have been condemmed as unfit....We pay our rents/ taxes and get little or nothing in return and yet from what i am reading these same councillors who make the decisions are being paid a healthy wage.

So where did the money go from the budget that was set aside for this programme?

If as a council they are in such dire straits that we have to live in substandard housing because there is no money,then why are they able to sqaunder the council coffers on projects that wont work?

[paulb]

simple they dont live their so they dont care. now if it was lerwick it would be diffrent. it would be wounderful if we could have the same things as a big city but lets face facts we are a small island with a very small population. we need the key areas looking after before spending on movie venues. the same for tunnels and hyper expensive schools. build the things we need at a cost we can afford. what is so difficult about that equation. you dont buy a jag is you can only pay for a mirca.

[Carlos]

So where did the money go from the budget that was set aside for this programme?

If as a council they are in such dire straits that we have to live in substandard housing because there is no money,then why are they able to sqaunder the council coffers on projects that wont work?

It's another revenue vs capital budgets thing.

Maintenance/running costs vs buying new stuff.

 

In theory at least the revenue budgets should only come from the money the council receives from Edinburgh, although they spend more and top it up out of their cash reserves. The capital spend comes fully from the cash reserves.

 

Once the budgets are set it's quite easy to have no money for one, quite small area of spending, while still putting out a big tender for a new project.

[EM]

... but councillors in Shetland only get re-elected if they manage to maintain the public perception of getting benefits to their area.

Do you think this is the case for all seats? I have a feeling that it is much less of an issue for Lerwick. Country councillors seem to need to be more visibly associated with things going on in their areas, whereas the big Lerwick issues are usually also Shetland issues.

[Carlos]

Well, it is a generalisation that doesn't apply to all councillors equally - some are known for championing Shetland-wide causes etc. but I think it does apply to the perception of the voters, with no political groupings round more fixed policies I think the majority of voters only ever ask about issues in their own wards........ which is not to say they won't complain about council spending etc after the elections

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Marge - "But mainstreet's still all cracked and broken."

 

Bart - "Sorry mom the mob has spoken"

 

All sing- "Monorail, monorail, monorail"

 

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9167/19614916ze6.jpg

[Para Handy]

1) Is any top bands etc willing to pay the cost of bringing there own equipment up here?

2) How much will you have to pay in ticket cost to cover there costs

3) Will the council have to chip in to help cover their costs

4) And with the credit crunch!

5) As most people Will now have to spend their money on day to day expenditure

 

I just don’t see the building making any of the money back Just another pig in a poke

 

Or how about doing what there doing In some places in Poland

 

Some cities have a new idea for pay lavatories... You can get in to the stall free, but you cannot get out without paying

 

I can see in now some wag will give some poor sole a Euro instead of a Penny when there stuck in side without any change and has his hand stuck under the door

[Baron Farkoff]

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the thrust of your post, Para Handy.

Polish toilets? Pennies under doors? Credit crunch?

As far as I am aware, most people spend their money on "day to day expenditure" every day.

Just imagine it, Willie Nelson wants to come and play Shetland (and you'd have to imagine it, because there's nowhere for him to play) and it might cost a bit. What the council would have to do with it is beyond me, other than there was a democratic decision to build a venue.

If Mr. Nelson were to come here I've no doubt ticket prices would be steep, but I've also no doubt that an enthusiast of the mans music would pay it.

To answer your points in order:

1) No, because there's more involved than just slinging your guitars on a plane at the moment. Mareel will provide "backline".

2) This is something that evey act and their tour manager have to work out everytime they play. That's what they do, and if they do it wrong they don't eat.

3) Please. Puh-leeeease.

4) and 5) see above.

I don't get the toilet bit either, but then I luckily have my nappies changed regularly for me. Are you suggesting that we let everyone in for free, and then spring a charge on them when they wish to leave?

Top Idea.

Of course ticket prices are going up, everything is. Always does.People still want to see live music.