Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[Wheesht]

I am still a bit of a floating voter here, but then again I don’t suppose the SIC are going to give me the opportunity to exercise that vote are they?

 

My concerns re this project are the long term viability, particularly of a cinema, given our population, its slow decrease and the niche that this venue is aiming at.

 

Lets get one thing straight, Davie Gardner, in my book, is doing a first rate job or promoting Shetland music which will become, if it already isn’t, a mid sized industry for these islands. His job is essential for the continued success of that but the venue I am not sold on as yet.

 

A need for a dedicated concert venue is very debatable, but let’s give the pro people the benefit of the doubt on that. I cannot however see that practice rooms, bars and a recording studio are needed, do we not already have provision for these elements throughout the islands already? Centralisation is to be avoided if we are to believe what we hear.

 

In addition, points that have been raised by others on the loss of earnings for the likes of the Boating Club, Islesburgh Community Centre, Clickimin etc have not been adequately answered as I see it. Will lose of revenue here effect any and/or all of these venues?

 

For the anti lobby, led by the SLTA it appears, I have a certain degree of sympathy for elements of the license trade but little has been done to counter the perceived effects of trade by the smoking ban by any of them never mind investment in the “entertainment†side of their businesses over the past 2 decades. I hear what they are saying about the weekend propping up the remainder of the week etc but then surely opening at 8 or 11am on a Monday to service a few gugs makes no business sense? Is diversification not an answer here?

 

I’m still a floating vote!

[wally jumblat]

My tuppenceworth ...

 

I used to go out to the pubs and clubs in Lerwick every weekend. Now that I'm slightly older (but still in my twenties) the novelty has worn off.

 

These days I typically only go out to the pubs when there is an event of some sort to entice me out. This could be a public event (e.g. Blues Festival), or something like a birthday or other special occasion.

 

Whats my point?

 

My point is that the pubs, on their own, don't offer enough to get me out of the house on a typical weekend, especially in the winter.

 

I think the new music venue will change this.

 

If there is a good concert on at the new venue I will almost certainly go to see it. Not only that, I think I would typically make a night of it - I would arrange to meet friends in a pub beforehand, and then also head back to the pubs for more drink after the event is finished.

 

 

For me, I won't be making a choice between going to the pubs or going to the music venue; my choice will be between having a good night out in Lerwick (start in a pub, move on to a concert, then back to the pubs) versus staying in, visiting friends, etc.

 

 

To summarise my point: the pubs in Lerwick will get more money out of me when the new music venue is up and running... as long as the venue puts on attractive events that I want to go to.

 

Anyone else in the same boat as me?

[JAStewart]

There was some statistic regarding the amount of people who would use the cinema in the last paper, I think it was from a questionnaire. I think the entire population of Shetland should be asked because I don't remember being asked what I thought.

[Njugle]

Correct again. It has never ever been the intention to offer subsided food and drink - indeed the prices could well be higher. As I mentioned yesterday it could well be that the food / drink element of the facillity be franchised out to an existing local provider in any case. This option is included the existing feasibility studies and has yet to be fully explored, so its quite conceivable that some of the objectors at this juncture could well be runnning this element of the facility in future.

 

To clarify: Is this presuming one trader, or perhaps sponsored events by whichever LT chooses to take advantage of the opportunity. ie Sponsored events/concerts in which takings be shared. It would provide a fantastic marketing opportunity for those that chose to use such a scenario.

 

This would provide "shares of the pie" rarther than a sole trader being a "divide and conquer" situation.

Also: I agree with most of what Wheesht said, and am also a "floater"

 

And finally, sorry to make light in a serious debate but:

..........you would be sitting in the cinema, surrounded by work colleauges, relatives etc etc , it would be borderline ridiculous!! i can see many a fight breaking out!

Who do you work for? The WWF?

 

That takes the prize for the most absurd argument thus far!

 

ps. later edit: I agree/concur with wally jumblat too!

[Muppet]

you would be sitting in the cinema, surrounded by work colleauges, relatives etc etc , it would be borderline ridiculous!! i can see many a fight breaking out!

 

Eh!!!! What kind of frends and relatives do you have?

 

Please dont degenerate this debate with absurdity's like that. It's your post that's borderline ridiculous.

[NewMagnie]

There was some statistic regarding the amount of people who would use the cinema in the last paper, I think it was from a questionnaire. I think the entire population of Shetland should be asked because I don't remember being asked what I thought.

 

The only consultation on the CMV was, as Davy G I think, points out - back in 2002. the consultation was, at that point posited in the vaguest terms, whether or not there was interest in a CMV.

 

The consultant - I forget his name but somebody pointed it out a few pages back - concluded that there was a business case, announcing that folks would come from far and wide to use it (he never explained how it would be feasible to get from Fetlar [eg] and back for an evenings entertainment, but no doubt thought that watching 'the incredibles' was something most Isles folk would be happy to shell out a night's digs for)

There was talk of an 'outreach facility' at that point I think - love to know what happened to that idea.

 

Still, I digress - the point is that since the steering group/council etc decided that not only was the scheme a goer but that a £7.5m affair was the way ahead - no; you haven't been asked what you thought.

 

And you're right. You should be.

[madcow]

There was some statistic regarding the amount of people who would use the cinema in the last paper, I think it was from a questionnaire. I think the entire population of Shetland should be asked because I don't remember being asked what I thought.

 

The only consultation on the CMV was, as Davy G I think, points out - back in 2002. the consultation was, at that point posited in the vaguest terms, whether or not there was interest in a CMV.

 

The consultant - I forget his name but somebody pointed it out a few pages back - concluded that there was a business case, announcing that folks would come from far and wide to use it (he never explained how it would be feasible to get from Fetlar [eg] and back for an evenings entertainment, but no doubt thought that watching 'the incredibles' was something most Isles folk would be happy to shell out a night's digs for)

There was talk of an 'outreach facility' at that point I think - love to know what happened to that idea.

 

Still, I digress - the point is that since the steering group/council etc decided that not only was the scheme a goer but that a £7.5m affair was the way ahead - no; you haven't been asked what you thought.

 

And you're right. You should be.

 

The consultant's name was Ron Inglis. He did a survey of the public asking if they would like to see a music/cinema built so that they could see more films - unfortunately he asked the audience as they left the Garrison after watching a film so you can guess what the answer there was! I wonder what it would have been if he'd asked the "man on the street".

 

Outreach work is already happening through Shetland Film Club touring to country halls, and Islesburgh's childrens' theatre shows going to country schools. What will happen to the Film Club? End of days, I think.

 

Apparently there were two public meetings in Lerwick and Davie G says they were well advertised and attended - despite working in the business, I was not aware of either of these meetings, which I would have been very interested in attending.

 

Why not have another public meeting now and guage the opinions of the public, since they are obviously afraid to hold a referendum?

 

Wally Jumblat said

 

If there is a good concert on at the new venue I will almost certainly go to see it. Not only that, I think I would typically make a night of it - I would arrange to meet friends in a pub beforehand, and then also head back to the pubs for more drink after the event is finished.

 

You would need to be doing this every single weekend, and not just occassionally to make the venue remotely viable. One event a month for 600 people is not going to justify a music venue.

 

I wish people would come to their senses and realise that the running costs of it are going to be very substantial, it is not going to make any sort of profit, and the public cannot afford to carry it, either through extra council tax or by spending their own hard cash in it, if they have any to spare.

[/b]

[DavieG]

i'm totally confused !

i hope people arent ganging up on davieG now, remember!

 

Thanks for the thought but I dont see it like that. Its not singularly my project, far from it, but I am happy to fend a few questions.

[DavieG]

In Shetland this is nigh impossible! you would be sitting in the cinema, surrounded by work colleauges, relatives etc etc , it would be borderline ridiculous!! i can see many a fight breaking out!

 

Am I missing something here? Why would fights break out? I didn't know watching films in silence caused rage and conflict. Maybe I've not been going to the right cinemas....

 

Am a bit lost on this one too. Neve seen one in the Garrison anyway. Went there the other night to see a film and hardly knew anyone there. Luxury!!!!

[DavieG]

Lets get one thing straight, Davie Gardner, in my book, is doing a first rate job or promoting Shetland music which will become, if it already isn’t, a mid sized industry for these islands. His job is essential for the continued success of that but the venue I am not sold on as yet.

 

Thanks for that, its truly appreciated and as I've said before you are entitled to your opinion. Every one is valid as long as its well informed.

 

A need for a dedicated concert venue is very debatable, but let’s give the pro people the benefit of the doubt on that. I cannot however see that practice rooms, bars and a recording studio are needed, do we not already have provision for these elements throughout the islands already? Centralisation is to be avoided if we are to believe what we hear.

 

As to the practise rooms and recording studio we do have some that could make do I suppose and there is a studio in Brae which has potential of course - the rest are pretty much home based and its really the recording space and better quality rehersal rooms that the demand has been for and still exists from those who contact me anyway.

 

In effect if we are to have a purpose built facility these additions would not cost a great deal and would be an essential part of any music development infrastructure.

 

As to the bars - that has already been well covered - but in this day and age if people are going out to be entertained they are more encouraged to do so if there are a full range of 'services' available - or so I am advised. As I said earlier this could be franchised out to an existing provider.

 

As far as centralisation is involved its a fair point, but its more realistic that a development such as this be nearest the main population centre but be aimed at impacting on the community as a whole. I hope I have adequately covered the rural 'outreach' programme this venue will offer earlier in this thread.

 

In addition, points that have been raised by others on the loss of earnings for the likes of the Boating Club, Islesburgh Community Centre, Clickimin etc have not been adequately answered as I see it. Will lose of revenue here effect any and/or all of these venues?

 

I disagree I think this has been well covered. At least I cant think of anymore more to say over and above what I have already said.

 

I’m still a floating vote!

 

Nothing wrong with that

[DavieG]

To clarify: Is this presuming one trader, or perhaps sponsored events by whichever LT chooses to take advantage of the opportunity. ie Sponsored events/concerts in which takings be shared. It would provide a fantastic marketing opportunity for those that chose to use such a scenario.

 

This would provide "shares of the pie" rarther than a sole trader being a "divide and conquer" situation.

Also: I agree with most of what Wheesht said, and am also a "floater"

 

Yes pretty much so. We do a lot of this at present with community and commercial facilities.

[DavieG]

There was talk of an 'outreach facility' at that point I think - love to know what happened to that idea.

 

As I have said before this still forms a big part of the plan both for music and cinema. Concerts in rural halls, film shows in all the outlying islands, possible digital showings in outlying areas of concerts that have to happen in Lerwick, education programmes etc etc. The same service as the Arts Trust and the Film Club offer at present, only better, hopefully more regular and more sustainable. I covered this earlier in the thread too.

 

PS We are doing a concert in Fetlar on the 24th June.

 

 

 

Still, I digress - the point is that since the steering group/council etc decided that not only was the scheme a goer but that a £7.5m affair was the way ahead - no; you haven't been asked what you thought.

 

And you're right. You should be.

 

You could see it like that but the public roadshows I was on (all of them in fact) did present a vision for the venue with provisional plans for it, site plans etc etc and very little in terms of that vision has changed since then. On the same roadshow were architects and 'experts' on the music and cinema content. We also had a estimated price on it at that time of £6m. There was also a full two page spread in the Shetland Times showing the same with all the elements set out - so sorry cant agree with this comment.

[Kevin]

I've been keeping an eye on this debate for a while but I've not read all 20 pages.

 

I'm a supporter of the project, although I know It'll probably never break even the amount of money spent to keep the venue afloat will be small compared to other amenities such as Lesiure Centres, also (this just came into my head) does Dale Golf club not receive well over £100000 per year?, maybe I'm wrong, If that kind of money can be spent on golf surely it can be spent on a music venue, I don't have anything against golf particularly but I think its a decent example.

 

Davie, you might be able to answer this?, I think somewhere on one of these 20 pages someone said that the venue would not damage the pubs profits because the type of music that the venue would cater for would be different to what is currently on in your average pub, I was a bit worried by this but surely every genre of music will have access to the new venue, there would be an uproar if it weren't the case. I'll try and find the post that gave me that impression.

 

About the studio and rehersal rooms, It is a facility that has been sorely missed in my 7 years of being involved in the music scene, that is about to change/ has changed (I'll make a new thread about that in the Music section). Hopefully our studio in Wethersta will be able to complement the new studios if they go ahead, if they don't go ahead then I beleive a very small amount of investment (compared to what a new studio would cost) would see our studio being a very good facility.

[DavieG]

The consultant's name was Ron Inglis. He did a survey of the public asking if they would like to see a music/cinema built so that they could see more films - unfortunately he asked the audience as they left the Garrison after watching a film so you can guess what the answer there was! I wonder what it would have been if he'd asked the "man on the street".

 

Be fair - that was not the only consultation done.

 

 

Outreach work is already happening through Shetland Film Club touring to country halls, and Islesburgh's childrens' theatre shows going to country schools. What will happen to the Film Club? End of days, I think.

 

Strange the Film Club is one of the main drivers of this proposal then. They are a voluntary committee that put in many hours of their own personal time to take films to many outlying areas of Shetland. They see this proposal as a way of securing and sustaining that service for the future.

 

Volunteers are an essential part of our community but everyone gets tired at some time and what may I ask would happen if thye decided they were not going to bother any more? - End of days I think.

 

 

Apparently there were two public meetings in Lerwick and Davie G says they were well advertised and attended - despite working in the business, I was not aware of either of these meetings, which I would have been very interested in attending.

 

Well they did take place I was at both and all the others throughout Shetland.

 

 

 

Why not have another public meeting now and guage the opinions of the public, since they are obviously afraid to hold a referendum?

 

I think its very unfair to say anyone is afraid of holding a referendum. I have pointed out what I think would be the weaknesses of such an approach earllier in this thread. For instance if say the majority voted no but still 8000 (arbitary figure) voted yes - that would still be a pretty healthy audience potential and I am sure other would change their mind at a later date. Under such circumstances would you not build it simply because the majorityh said no - it would all get very confusing. My personal thought only.

 

 

You would need to be doing this every single weekend, and not just occassionally to make the venue remotely viable. One event a month for 600 people is not going to justify a music venue.

 

If you look at the business plan you will see there are a wide number of potential audiences out there not just a singular one that goes out every weekend while everyone else stays in, so a equally wide number of event could be promoted in this context.

 

I wish people would come to their senses and realise that the running costs of it are going to be very substantial, it is not going to make any sort of profit, and the public cannot afford to carry it, either through extra council tax or by spending their own hard cash in it, if they have any to spare.

[/b]

 

Its all in the business plan from the worst possible scenario (a loss) to the best possible (a profit)

[lumpsucker]

Calm down Davie - my brain is sweeing.