Ghostrider Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 ^ When did Isleburgh start doing licensed gigs? I've always had an impression of the place since it opened that it was essentially "youth" activities, and meeting rooms for things like the Camera Club and so on, unless maybe for "one off" things like the Folk Festival, UHA etc.Hmm, how long has the Folk Festival been at Islesburgh? A long time, anyway. Not sure of your point. Like I said Isleburgh is known for "one off" gigs as part of a bigger event, like UHA and the Folk Festival, but not really preceived as an "anything anytime" stand alone gig venue, as it appeared it was used for on this occasion. Not saying its a bad idea, just that with its previous form its not the kind of place you make a point of checking out what's on at a weekend, as 99% of the time there'll be nowt - and that organiser(s) might wish to bear that in mind and advertise a bit more aggressively to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 It seems then to avoid the problems, you need to employ trained staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 It seems then to avoid the problems, you need to employ trained staff. Surely you're not suggesting the £20 a night guys were untrained and the cause of "problems"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 HOW much? http://www.shetlandarts.org/images/2012/04/Crowd-Safety-Assistant-JP.pdfThat is a reasonable wage for the responsibilities. This will be a qualified operative with duties to train as well as prevent trouble. WTH is your problem with that? One respectfully suggests you read the job spec again. It is not a job with "duties to train"; indeed, if they were seeking "a qualified operative" then why would they state "SIA badge holder or aid or willingness to complete the training if requested by SADA". Over £15 per hour for a 'bouncer' is above the going rate - £8 to £12 per hour is the norm for qualified staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 To take part in relevant training, in particular keeping abreast of SIA badge holder requirements, training and updates, and to use that knowledge to train and inform fellow staff members and volunteers. You appear desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 SP, the only people who can train others to be security operatives are those licensed by the SIA to do so; being an SIA badge holder does not immediately equate to be an SIA approved trainer. My point stands, they are paying over the going rate for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Your opinion is that they are offering too much. It is a reasonable wage for a skilled job with such responsibilities, they will be responsible for the Health (or Elf in your case (Too much Daily Fail in your life me thinks)) and Safety of other members of the team. Knowing several SIA trained folk, they deserve that level of pay, if they have those extended responsibilities. Your point, as demonstrated on this thread is to rubbish the Shetland Arts and the Mareel. Where does it say that they will be training to SIA levels? They can use their knowledge and skills they have to instruct members of the team in safety in a public place, it is part of their responsibilities. As you know, the employer can create their own training for staff if it is risk assessed and it proves to reduce the final scores acording to the matrix. It happens EVERYWHERE. You appear to know little of the duties if a SIA and the need to have them in such establishments. It would be cost effective to have your own that to use an agency. It is a fair wage. Especially as the work is casual. Edited August 19, 2014 by shetlandpeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Whether its a fair wage or not isn't the point. The point is, can Mareel afford such a "generous" wage when its already having to sell assets to balance the books? It would be considerably more reassuring to hear that in its second year of operation it outperformed forecast and first year income. Sadly we haven't as yet, in fact how well or otherwise its done this year has gone strangely quiet.... Until and unless a public facility involving public money is proven to be as bouyant and viable as predicted in their business plan, it would be very reassuring to see proof that expenditure is being tightly monitored, which includes minimising the wage bill as much as possible too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 It is really a worry when everything is just purely about money an profits. If however, the establishment needs such an operative for future plans, and requires the operative to carry in-house training (which will show a saving on external training), requires the operative to be on a "on-call" system rather than a permanent employment basis, it would be justified using your "just think of the money" reasons. It is still a fair wage and sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 It is really a worry when everything is just purely about money an profits. .....and sustainable. Without the former, you certainly won't have the latter. Being "all about money and profits" seems to the very loud and clear message coming across in support of VE recently, so, if its good enough for them...... That said, how would you, or anyone else for that matter know what is sustainable for Mareel, given that the last the public heard about its financial state was almost one year ago, and while possibly tolerable to most, was hardly grounds for optimisim. Acid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 VE has FA to do with the Mareel and SIA officers. The fact you want to link the two does the debate on the need or no need of a SIA officer no justice. Still, there is a need for an SIA officer, they will be paid for as they are required. Still, you do have it within your gift to change the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 VE has FA to do with the Mareel and SIA officers. The fact you want to link the two does the debate on the need or no need of a SIA officer no justice. Peat, can't you recognise a tongue in cheek humorous dig when you see one. I wasn't aware there was a debate about the need or no need for an SIA officer aka. bouncer at Mareel in the first place, rather that there was a debate about whether Mareel were offering well OTT almost silly money for the employment position they were advertising, which the public has no idea whether or not it can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 When I see positions(?) advertised at stupid wage rates, I automatically think that some one has found a little more room in the publicly funded 'trough' for another nose... You have to ask yourself what other local, private, employers are paying for SIA trained door staff aka 'bouncers' (don't you just love that word). It sure as hell isn't £15 ph, or anywhere near that so, why does Mareel think it has to pay so much? It would be much cheaper if we all learned how to beat ourselves up... Although, I suspect that if that was to become a trend, there would be publicly funded thugs on ridiculous wages just to make sure we were doing it right.....<G> Suffererof1crankymofo and Acid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rum_beast Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) --------------- Edited August 21, 2014 by savage_sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) They are not after just door staff. There appears to be a bit more to it. You need SIA trained folk for premises, some rear of counter work can only be done by SIA folk. Edited August 22, 2014 by shetlandpeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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