Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[dB]

[

 

Only jesting - I reckon about 20 to 1 in favour of NOT going ahead of the people I speak to.

 

 

Finally, just out of interest again if as you suggest questioning audiences attending the Garrison was 'loaded' so to speak - where and with whom did you carry out your survey (that gave the figure of 20 - 1 against) what was the question asked and did those you questioned have the full picture of what the whole project was about?

 

Surveys are fickle things I agree but you cant ridicule one done formally and then say that what you did, presumably readomly and unsubstantiated (especially as you are obviously hoping for a negative response), has any more relevance.

 

Its a bit like the question at the start of this forum where the cost of the new facility is cited as £7 but no cost, or anything else for that matter, is put on the alternative. Its just assumed it will be cheaper without further detail and any meat on the bones of the counter arguement so to speak. Hardly purposeful I feel.

 

 

 

I will try and answer your points as fairly as I can.

 

I didn't, and have never pretended to be an expert on Ron Inglis and his surveys. If you would be so kind as to read my post you will see "I have heard one of Ron Inglis's etc etc". I haven't a clue what or who he asked. Perhaps his surveys are available for public perusal. If so could you let me know where to find them?

 

My concerns about Ron Inglis and the other "experts" who wrote the business plan are well documented earlier. That is why I asked the question. The business plan is a piece of complete and utter fantasy. Anyone with the slightest bit of business sense would see that. Take the projected food and drink sales figure of £1400 income every day. You yourself suggested in this thread that there are pubs in Lerwick who can and do make "many times" that in an afternoon. Can I suggest that someone substantiates this? Otherwise this figure will remain a fantasy as well.

 

I confess. My figure of 20 to 1 against building a venue was biased. It's totally incorrect. I should have said more like 20 to none. I ask a simple question "what do you think of the proposed cinema and music venue?" to most people I meet in my day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. I have yet to meet anyone who says they're in favour. NOT ONE. Most replies are along the lines of "anidder waste o wir money", usually with a few choice adjectives added.

 

I'm getting the impression that you're reluctant to see a referendum and/or survey.

 

Why's that I wonder?

[Frankie]

My grandad was a crofter, and in his day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. he said that everyone he met was against building Leisure Centres. He thought the rural halls were good enough for everyones sporting needs.

[dB]

My grandad was a crofter, and in his day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. he said that everyone he met was against building Leisure Centres. He thought the rural halls were good enough for everyones sporting needs.

 

 

In a lot of respects he was quite right. I'm thinking of the plethora of swimming pools, especially Scalloway and Sandwick which are, at the most, a 20 minute drive from the Clickimin.

 

Of course the rural halls weren't much use for learning to swim.

[Frankie]

My grandad was a crofter, and in his day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. he said that everyone he met was against building Leisure Centres. He thought the rural halls were good enough for everyones sporting needs.

 

 

In a lot of respects he was quite right. I'm thinking of the plethora of swimming pools, especially Scalloway and Sandwick which are, at the most, a 20 minute drive from the Clickimin.

 

Of course the rural halls weren't much use for learning to swim.

 

So you think the Clickimin is ok then ?

[dB]

My grandad was a crofter, and in his day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. he said that everyone he met was against building Leisure Centres. He thought the rural halls were good enough for everyones sporting needs.

 

 

In a lot of respects he was quite right. I'm thinking of the plethora of swimming pools, especially Scalloway and Sandwick which are, at the most, a 20 minute drive from the Clickimin.

 

Of course the rural halls weren't much use for learning to swim.

 

So you think the Clickimin is ok then ?

 

 

I'm no sure which bit of the Clickimin du means but if it's da pool then if I wis a lot younger I wid rather use da Clickimin pool with aa da features dan go tae a pool wi' nae features. I ken my bairns feels dat wy.

 

 

BTW - dis is kinda getting awa fae da main point o da thread. Let's no get too side-tracked.

[DavieG]

I will try and answer your points as fairly as I can.

 

I didn't, and have never pretended to be an expert on Ron Inglis and his surveys. If you would be so kind as to read my post you will see "I have heard one of Ron Inglis's etc etc". I haven't a clue what or who he asked. Perhaps his surveys are available for public perusal. If so could you let me know where to find them?

 

My concerns about Ron Inglis and the other "experts" who wrote the business plan are well documented earlier. That is why I asked the question. The business plan is a piece of complete and utter fantasy. Anyone with the slightest bit of business sense would see that. Take the projected food and drink sales figure of £1400 income every day. You yourself suggested in this thread that there are pubs in Lerwick who can and do make "many times" that in an afternoon. Can I suggest that someone substantiates this? Otherwise this figure will remain a fantasy as well.

 

I confess. My figure of 20 to 1 against building a venue was biased. It's totally incorrect. I should have said more like 20 to none. I ask a simple question "what do you think of the proposed cinema and music venue?" to most people I meet in my day to day activities, work, socialising, visiting etc etc. I have yet to meet anyone who says they're in favour. NOT ONE. Most replies are along the lines of "anidder waste o wir money", usually with a few choice adjectives added.

 

I'm getting the impression that you're reluctant to see a referendum and/or survey.

 

Why's that I wonder?

All Ron Inglis info exists as part of the original feasibility study done for the council and they hold the document at Community Services. Its a fairly massive document believe it or not and used to be on-line at the SIC webiste. If its no longer there then I would imagine you could still obtain a copy with a formal request.

 

All I can tell you re pubs in the town is what they have told me and also what Marvin said having worked in a number over the years. But if anyone wants to enlighten us then I would be interested to hear it. It would again be largely hearsay I suspect though.

 

All I can say from my own expereince is that as part of a funding agreement with a certain pub in the town who started promoting trad sessions we had to measure income to establish sustainability and I can assure you then used to take around that figure in in substantially less than one fairly busy evening believe it or not.

 

Also Marvin Smith provided a sample scenario of possible income earlier in this thread which some at least seemed to find feasible. And to be honest there is not a like for like instance you can currently draw in Lerwick or anywhere else in Shetland to be honest.

 

However the consultants did look at other 'rural' facilities throughout Scotland in an attempt to inform their thinking.

 

You mention fantasy figures but I'm afraid yours of now 20 to nil can hardly been seen as formal either. However I will take your word for it although I have never found a figure anywhere near this when speaking to the general public but there we go.

 

I again was in the Lounge last night for a pint and there was still only one signature on the petition.

 

I have already told you where I see the falabilities of the sporadic survey or a referendum lie in this kind of instance and I'm afraid even the more sceptical of the councillors even agreed with this.

[NewMagnie]

Davie - there's still a crucial issue to be addressed in regard to the public consultation here. That is, the cost.

 

The original 'survey' simply asked people whether they'd like a cinema and music venue. That was a few years back now. The current discussion is around the cost of the venue and whether that's justifiable.

 

You can't answer that point by bandying about notional figures of uptake. The fact of the matter is, that Ron Inglis 'survey' didn't address this issue and it's the one that's currently generating most debate.

 

The fact that you think that even if a referendum showed the majority of public opinion were against it - no matter how you couch it in terms of feasibility - that it should be built in any case is hardly a wholehearted embrace of the democratic process.

 

You might have a point though - a plebiscite might not be the best way to resolve that issue. There are a raft of research techniques that would be appropriate but first we need to separate the two questions of wheter the facility is feasible and whether it is desirable.

[dB]

(yes it was also much wider than just the one question you have chosen to focus on - much of it a full written questionairre) were also adults and not kids as you again seem to suggest.

 

 

Please read my post again and tell me where I suggested that kids were asked.

[Frankie]

 

 

BTW - dis is kinda getting awa fae da main point o da thread. Let's no get too side-tracked.

 

OK.

The main point of the thread was 'Do you want a purpose built cinema & music venue?'

 

At the moment the poll stands at 40% who want SIC to spend at least £7m on a new purpose built venue, and 60% who want SIC to spend considerably less on upgrading existing venues.

[dB]

All I can say from my own expereince is that as part of a funding agreement with a certain pub in the town who started promoting trad sessions we had to measure income to establish sustainability and I can assure you then used to take around that figure in in substantially less than one fairly busy evening believe it or not.

 

 

You said earlier in this thread something like "many pubs in Lerwick take in many times that (£1400) in an afternoon".

 

How many pubs and how many times £1400 - double, triple, quadruple? I'll bet there isn't a pub in Shetland doing those kind of figures.

 

The whole point that seems to be escaping you is that the proposed venue ISN'T a pub and never will be. I have no doubt it will have some busy nights and on occasion will exceed £1400 income daily. It will never do anything near those figures on a regular basis.

 

The proposal isn't for a pub where people go to drink. It's for a cinema/music venue where people will go to watch a movie or a concert. To take in £1400 on refreshments day in day out is cloud cuckoo land.

 

How much does the Clickimin take in with food and drink sales? You'll be doing well to overtake them.

[dB]

Surveys are fickle things I agree but you cant ridicule one done formally and then say that what you did, presumably readomly and unsubstantiated (especially as you are obviously hoping for a negative response), has any more relevance.

 

 

How on earth would you know what kind of response I was hoping for? Making assumptions helps nobody.

[Frankie]

 

How much does the Clickimin take in with food and drink sales? You'll be doing well to overtake them.

 

On the drink side, the Clickimin bar is nearly empty for most of the time every night of the week.

However, there is absolutely no effort made by the management to encourage more custom. In fact I would say they try to discourage its use, and would be quite happy if it closed.

 

The only times I have seen more than 3 or 4 people in is Saturday afternoons after Shetland rugby matches, and every second Friday when they host a darts match.

 

I would say that it must be running at a loss.

 

The CMV bar can't fail to do better than the Clickimin bar, but I would think they would do well to average £1400 a week.

I cannot believe they expect to average £1400 a day.

[peeriebryan]

Below is an article Davie Gardner posted concerning the Music Development Programme (now a thread in the music forum), which has considerable cross thread interest with regards to the benefits afforded Shetland music should the CMV go ahead

 

You can read the thread here

 

..and download the documents here

 

Just for interest the lads at Shetlink have offered to post a copy of the most recent and ongoing 'plan' for the Shetland Arts Music Development Project.

 

This has two purposes for me:

 

1 To inform everyone what we are actually doing at the moment in this respect and perhaps get some more feedback and ideas from the general public - I already get this on a formal footing from a range of folk involved in the local music 'industry'

 

and

 

2 To give you just some idea of the kind of music development work currently ongoing that would be significantly extended if a new facility were to be provided. Everyone tends to focus on the performance element of the proposed new facility and ignore EVERYTHING else that its set to deliver on.

 

And before you ask, yes we looked at providing many, indeed all, of these initiatives in all sorts of existing venues and through existing service providers when the Music Development Project almost folded through lack of funding not so long ago and we got a distinctly cool response from them all regarding taking on the practical responsibility and finding the funding necessary to do so.

 

The document is available via the 'Downloads' section of this site. Any thoughts and ideas would be helpful as always.

 

Davie Gardner

Music Development Officer

Shetland Arts Trust

[Jo]

Okay, facts first. The new cinema and music venue is budgeted to cost 7.1 million, with 2.2 million of that coming from the lottery fund, leaving £4.9 million for the council to pay for.

 

The council decided a couple of years ago to spend some of the reserve fund on the venue. The reserve fund is council reserves that are invested, earn millions in interest and are there to be spent on things like facilities for the people of Shetland. I look on it as rainy day money.

 

So, the money for the building of the venue comes from a different pot of money than the one that pays for teachers or care staff for old folks homes or the essy cart.

 

Running costs - It has not yet been decided how exactly the cinema and music venue will be run, but it will be somewhere under the auspices of the Charitable Trust.

 

The Charitable Trust administers money that comes originally from the Sullom Voe Oil Terminal site negotiations. That money is also invested, earns interest and provides lots of very important services for the people of Shetland, like the Amenity Trust, The Recreational Trust (all those leisure centres and swimming pools) and the Arts Trust. This money is NOT COUNCIL MONEY. It can't be spent on teachers or meals on wheels or other core council services.

 

The present economic climate in Shetland not healthy - the fishing is knackered, the oil industry is in rapid decline and even with the building boom, there are still building companies going bankrupt. New industries and businesses and employment opportunities need to be created. Graduates and skilled workers need to be attracted to Shetland to work, train people and develop businesses.

 

The proposed cinema and music venue will contribute to that economic development through helping population retention, by providing training and learning opportunities to everyone throughout Shetland and by providing a professional stage for musicians, performers, song-writers, engineers, producers, film-makers, animation and CGI artists, etc. With the right equipment and techology, Shetland musicians will be able to play live to the whole world via the web & on radio, and the rest of the world will be able to see, hear and work with local musicians and film-makers.

 

The dozens of feasibility studies that have been written over the years all recognise that, put simply, the cinema and music venue can cover their own costs, until the outreach services are taken into account. These services, bringing film and a range of music events to everyone from pensioners in Unst to Whalsay pre-school to Jazz afficionados in North Mavine to fans of old movies in Sandwick, are an essential part of the service. The cinema and music venue is intended to be for everyone in Shetland, not just Lerwick and not just pub-age dance music fans.

 

Partnerships with organisations like the Shetland College will also make studying music related courses in Shetland possible.

 

It is less than 15 years ago that the first Shetland bands started releasing CDs. It does not take much imagination to see the possibilities in film-making, music videos & DVDs, and even feature film. Bear in mind that the Shetland music industry was valued at £6 million pounds a couple of years ago. Imagine what it could be worth in the future!

 

Personally, I can't wait to see hundreds of peerie bairns at the touring Balamory musical - it would pack the place for days. Or the all-night back-to-back showing of Alien, Aliens and Alien3. And instead of Shetlanders going clubbing in Orkney, we might even get a few Orkadians coming to Shetland for the weekend to clutter up the pubs and go to the venue.

 

Finally, when the cinema and music venue opens in three and a half years time, all the Lerwick pubs, late night food outlets and taxis will be busier than ever so instead of whinging, they should realise that it is an opportunity for them to make even more money.

[BeeSmith]

Great post Jo, good to hear some facts about the venue and good to hear some positvity about the potential of this place, instead of so much of the whingeing about how much it's going to cost Shetlanders and Shetland as a whole.

I cannot understand how anyone would want to complain about something which is going to add to the community. A little bit of narrow-mindedness is probably the answer, where certain people are scared of something new and exciting. "let's just be happy with what we have" seems to be a common arguement. I say let's allow the people who are employed to make the decisions make them, bearing in mind they are the people who have fully researched the project. i am sure these people are not going to invest into a project that is going to bring such doom and gloom to our islands as many seem to be suggesting.

All the best to those involved, and I look forward to making the most out of these facilities if and when they arrive.