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Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue


madcow
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cheers for the responce bryan. some goods points. what do you think about a venue on the idea of the large venues south, e.g. secc only sized to reflect our biggest proposed concerts. the walls internally could move to reduce the size of the venue for smaller concerts. After all, most of the big venues are as one paper review called an "aircraft hanger". what i am getting at is a no frills BIG venue. going on what alan macleod said in the paper recently, would this not be a more suitable option.

i agree sound is important, but is size not the real issue. there are plenty of small venues in the isles. something to meet large capacity seems more what we need.

as for the cinema part. are cinemas not on the way out? i do like the novelty of going when i'm south, but like most would not use it regularly. i didn't when it was here last. that's why it stopped operating!

i'm for a big shed that can take punishment and large audiences. sean casey fae da ness builds one every few weeks. get him in and use the savings to buy a big sound system that can melt ear wax. the rest of the savings can be used to improve and market the garrison, NAFC and museum for film use.

cheers for noo and i'm sure we'll discuss it ower a nip or three sometime.

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as for the cinema part. are cinemas not on the way out?

 

If I can jump in here.... The mass market multiplexes seem to be suffering with minimal downturns in revenues, however, smaller (<200) seater venues seem to be on the up. My sources are Financial Times and Stock Exchanges web sites and linked analysis pages from the likes of the Economist. And direct site visits.

 

The audiences comprise cinema goers - wow what a no brainer I hear you say - but what I mean is that the audiences comprise people who want to go to the cinema, much like those who want to go to the theatre. The multiplexes bank on numbers and choice and to be quite honest a pretty poor overall experience, hence as numbers drop to cinema goers and the casuals resort to HD screens and Blu-Ray, the areas of the market benefitting are the smaller picture houses with the better experience. There's a guy in Kent who has a 90 seater house, with multiplexes circling him at around 20 miles radius. He's full. Always full. He makes money because there's demand, and he augments demand by adding value such as for the early afternoon showings typically patronised by the elderly - in this case he adds a cup of tea and a scone and the space for people to discuss the film in a nice cafe type environment. What he does not do is compromise on quality and on cinematic releases. This guy gets first releases on the same dates as the big players. In fact he's doing so well he's opening a second picture house in Sevenoaks.

 

Cinemas are not on the way out, they're changing form and reacting to the market demands of the customers, and hopefully a better cinema experience will be the result.

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Also we have to put what Shetlanders want for themselves first not what some booger that has moved here with there own ideas of who and what we are telling us what they know that we want if only we would pay attention.

 

Same old story. Obviously the Southerners are the source of all evil if only they'd go away and leave 'true' shetlanders alone.

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cheers for the responce bryan. some goods points. what do you think about a venue on the idea of the large venues south, e.g. secc only sized to reflect our biggest proposed concerts. the walls internally could move to reduce the size of the venue for smaller concerts. After all, most of the big venues are as one paper review called an "aircraft hanger". what i am getting at is a no frills BIG venue. going on what alan macleod said in the paper recently, would this not be a more suitable option.

I think the plans for Mareel are an excellent balance considering existing venue provision. Here’s the various (approximate) capacities of Mareel's main auditorium:

 

- 250 with the seating extended

- 600 standing with the stage in place

- 700 standing without the stage (for DJs etc)

- An additional 50 in the balcony area

(these figures don’t include the bar and foyer areas, which would add several hundred more to the overall capacity)

 

- Most country halls and existing venues have a standing capacity around the 2-250 mark

 

- The Clickimin has a standing capacity of around 11-1200 with a bar and 14-1500 without

 

I don’t see the logic of building a “no frills big venue” when bigger concerts can be put on in the Clickimin. The Clickimin does have well known problems with acoustics, but to build a venue of similar capacity with better acoustics would be still be expensive, and would be underutilised.

 

Additionally, there’s the logistics and expense of taking up bands with a wide enough appeal that would sell out such a venue on a regular basis. Personally, I don’t think there is sufficient demand in Shetland for regular enough ‘blockbuster’ gigs to justify such a building (although your moving walls suggestion is intriguing!).

 

What Alan seemed to be getting at in the Shetland Times article (I don't want to put words in your mouth here Alan) was the expense of hiring the Clickimin. This is a problem I've also encountered (although I've found the Clickimin management to be very helpful in this respect. But they have their costs to cover too) so perhaps a way to subsidise the expense could be looked at? Regular promoters such as Alan, Davie Gardner and Marvin Smith are probably better placed to elaborate on this, and Carlos' point on ticket sales. If you’re out there gents, your input to the discussion would be valuable.

 

i agree sound is important, but is size not the real issue. there are plenty of small venues in the isles. something to meet large capacity seems more what we need.
Acoustics are a difficult thing to quantify. But acoustics are, in my opinion, the most important aspect of a venue. When I’ve toured with bands playing night after night in different venues, the quality of, and differences between, the acoustics in the various venues is highlighted. It really can make or break a gig from both the audiences and musicians point of view.

 

There are many venues in the UK that are renowned in the music industry as having bad acoustics, such as the SECC. But venues built with acoustics in mind, with a PA tailored to the room and sound engineers who know the venue, are light years ahead of multi purpose spaces with a hired in PA.

 

For example, I was in the TA Hall on Saturday with Stevie Hook, Fraser Mouat (both experienced sound engineers) and the ‘Attitude’ folk (Attitude is a young promoters group who are putting on an alcohol free gig in the TA on 29th of March www.bebo.com/attitud123 ). We were there to figure out how to make the acoustics manageable, as hard surfaced parallel walls (like most country halls) mean the reverb, echo and standing waves are very pronounced. If you clap your hands in the TA Hall when empty, there’s about a 4 second reverb tail. And you can imagine the problems of putting several thousand watts of amplification in there! The sound becomes an undefined mush.

 

The only practical option is to hang drapes and tarps around the walls, which takes considerable time to put up and take down. And it doesn’t ‘improve’ the acoustics; it only makes them more manageable. There will still be several hours of work required to ‘tune’ he PA to the room.

 

I think most folk would probably be surprised at the amount of work sound engineers and musicians put in during pre-show soundchecks in order to work around the inherent problems of many venues.

 

...and so far we've only covered amplified music. Music such as unamplified jazz, classical, folk etc really highlight problems with acoustics as there's no PA 'buffer' (EQs, compressors, effects etc) to help work around problems.

 

i'm for a big shed that can take punishment and large audiences. sean casey fae da ness builds one every few weeks. get him in and use the savings to buy a big sound system that can melt ear wax.
He does build a mean shed! But as far as PAs go, power is nothing without control!

 

cheers for noo and i'm sure we'll discuss it ower a nip or three sometime.
If I’d remembered you were ‘sailor’ I wouldn’t have been so formal with my last reply :wink: Nips ahoy!

 

We definetly need a proper, decent sized music venue, not so sure about having a cinema though, especially not if it limits the capacity of the music venue.
The capacity of the music venue has been considered on its own terms. If the cinema wasn't part of the design, it's unlikely that the music venue capacity would have been increased.

 

 

 

Me being racist again but how many Shetlanders are actually in the Shetland Arts Trust.
^ not all soothmoothers, but our art trust does seem to be very top heavy with them.

And remember a statement of fact is neither racist or xenephobic

A bit inconsistent on the racist angle there? I fail to see any relevance in the birthplace of some employees of one of the organisations involved with Mareel. For the record, as has previously been pointed out to you, there's a list of Shetland Arts' staff here - www.shetlandarts.org/whoarewe.html - you could email everyone and ask where they were born. It would save the bother of repeatedly bringing it up in this thread.
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However it is painted up, we cannot afford it...................................Simple as that.

 

Sad but true. I would love to see our young musical talent having the best facilities to perform at.

 

However,

 

Its time to 'cut the cloot' as they say and make do with what we have.

 

Or it is easier to say we will start making savings,...........after the Mareel has been built, or is that in reality, after we have moved the fuel tanks and then built Mareel.

 

We cannot afford another white elephant.

 

I am sure the cash flows show a profit, all you do is show increase usage and higher income to achieve that.

 

Could I propose that the salaries of SAT staff could be paid out of what funds are left after the venue expenses including capital repayments and interest for the building, have been settled each month.

 

A bit like how the fishermen of old worked. If the season was a disaster, there were no wages?

 

Or am I missing something?

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I am sure the cash flows show a profit, all you do is show increase usage and higher income to achieve that.

 

Of course you can show anything you like with a creative cash flow, but in reality I can't see that happening.

With the recent rises in the cost of living, fuel etc - which will doubtless continue - households on average incomes will be tightening the belt even more. I think usage will be lower than predicted as an 'evening out in town' for a lot of us becomes more and more a luxuary item.

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TeeAyBee wrote:

f I can jump in here.... The mass market multiplexes seem to be suffering with minimal downturns in revenues, however, smaller (<200) seater venues seem to be on the up. My sources are Financial Times and Stock Exchanges web sites and linked analysis pages from the likes of the Economist. And direct site visits.

 

The audiences comprise cinema goers - wow what a no brainer I hear you say - but what I mean is that the audiences comprise people who want to go to the cinema, much like those who want to go to the theatre. The multiplexes bank on numbers and choice and to be quite honest a pretty poor overall experience, hence as numbers drop to cinema goers and the casuals resort to HD screens and Blu-Ray, the areas of the market benefitting are the smaller picture houses with the better experience. There's a guy in Kent who has a 90 seater house, with multiplexes circling him at around 20 miles radius. He's full. Always full. He makes money because there's demand, and he augments demand by adding value such as for the early afternoon showings typically patronised by the elderly - in this case he adds a cup of tea and a scone and the space for people to discuss the film in a nice cafe type environment. What he does not do is compromise on quality and on cinematic releases. This guy gets first releases on the same dates as the big players. In fact he's doing so well he's opening a second picture house in Sevenoaks.

 

Cinemas are not on the way out, they're changing form and reacting to the market demands of the customers, and hopefully a better cinema experience will be the result.

 

Cheers for the info. thats a good point. byran, are you listening to this person. small is good too (garrison, NAFC, museum???).

 

i hear what you're saying about sound bryan. i was on a sound course with the guy who did prince's sound in islesburgh a couple of years back (davie g organised) and seen hookie battle wi fiddle sound in some not so good acoustically blessed venues. but you have not won me round yet me lad!

 

keep trying. neil (since you already know)

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Does Shetland need a suitable music venue - IMO definitely yes. Anybody who thinks Clickimin is suitable is not on the ball. Although I've had some memorable nights there (Pulp, Shooglenifty spring to mind), it is without doubt one of the worst venues I've ever had the misfortune to play in. Not just in Shetland, but anywhere in the world I've been lucky enough to play. Some places down here in Glasgow are just as bad eg, Beirut in the Arches last October. Feedback from the first song to the last as the soundman freaked out over the acoustics. A venue with good acoustics is so rare, and if Shetland had one with a good PA bands would soon know that a guaranteed good night was in store.

 

As to the expense issue, I can sympathise with the genuine concerns. But the pros do outweigh the cons for me. Does anybody think that the fears over care for the elderly etc would be sorted if Mareel didn't go ahead. Doubt it. I think it is a really exciting venture for Shetland, and having 600 folk pay £15/20 a ticket for a solid touring band regularly in the isles would be a real plus.

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As to the expense issue, I can sympathise with the genuine concerns. But the pros do outweigh the cons for me. Does anybody think that the fears over care for the elderly etc would be sorted if Mareel didn't go ahead. Doubt it. I think it is a really exciting venture for Shetland, and having 600 folk pay £15/20 a ticket for a solid touring band regularly in the isles would be a real plus.

 

A good example of lets try and save money, but not with my pet project.

 

Just like our councillors are good at, 'lets cut the budgets', - as long as its not in my area.

 

Unless the nettle is grasped, is it not a distinct reality that care for the elderly will become impossible because we have spent all our money on unnecessary luxury pet projects that we cannot afford?

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A good example of lets try and save money, but not with my pet project.

Just like our councillors are good at, 'lets cut the budgets', - as long as its not in my area.

 

I think you're being a mite unfair with the poster you quote. That's not what was said.

 

Unless the nettle is grasped, is it not a distinct reality that care for the elderly will become impossible because we have spent all our money on unnecessary luxury pet projects that we cannot afford?

 

Take a look at care provision in comparison with pretty much anywhere else in the country. Shetland has fantastic care for the elderly and infirm, excellent leisure facilities and a nest egg that no other UK region has. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating spend spend spend, but you need to get this into context.

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