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Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue


madcow
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I suspect there is major 'spin' going on here.

 

Caesar, I think you are right.

 

What else would you call full page adverts placed by Shetland Arts in the i'i magazine and the infantile 'We're Ready' campaign. The reality is 'we're' far from ready!

 

The latest thing is postcards, produced at vast expense surely, to send to your 'Council-' (sic)

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It may come across that I don't want any kind of facility to be built, thats not the case, I would like to see something in the Isles that can house entertainment but not at an unrealistic price or of a design which becomes a burden. I've been involved in enough projects where costs have spiralled out of control because from conception the project was flawed in either purpose, design or both. I just wouldn't like to read that this has gone from being what could be a valued part of the Isles to a project that cost twice as much and not used as much as was estimated.

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Well if £4.2M is from external sources and £5.1M from charitable trust/SIC/Arts trust who will be paying any overspend in construction?? Let me guess the SIC yet again?

 

The projected running costs break even after 3 years for this project but what is the projected impact on the existing venues that are currently supported by the charitable trust/SIC/Arts trust. I presume the cost estimate for expenditure v income in the business plan has been scrutinised and accepted by the SIC’s accountants as realistic in the current economic climate.

 

The letter on the Shetland news web site on new technologies in a modern Cinema is indeed a jump from the garrison but is it worth £9.3M? Maybe it is such a jump in viewing experience it will manage to extract fresh new money out of the economy.

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That's what I was thinking, you've got about 22k people on Shetland, if there was a significant demand for a cinema then why haven't one of the chains put one up?.

 

Because it would not make a return on the investment.

The Mareel analysis has them making enough income to more or less cover the running costs. A business setup would want to cover the running costs, it's £9M mortgage payments and a healthy profit before they would look at it.

 

That's the point I was making there isn't one because a cinema isn't financially viable in an area where the population is so small and scattered.

 

The case "for" is that if you invest the capital money, the running costs will be self financing, with no future revenue drains year on year. That may or may not be decided to be acceptable, but as has been discussed, is a more positive long term outlook than a lot of other council projects where you spend the inital costs and then that commits you to spending more each year to not "waste" the investment.

 

That would obviously not be acceptable for a purely private venture, as it would not get back the capital.

 

There is a case that the council should maybe look to get it's capital money back too, but that kind of change of approach would have very heavy implications on everything council related.

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The letter on the Shetland news web site on new technologies in a modern Cinema is indeed a jump from the garrison

Bear in mind that the jump is not just in quality of service, but in frequency also. More options for when folks can go. This gives smaller, more regular audiences make for a nicer cinema experience. It doesn't have to be thousands of seats, always full to capacity.

 

Then the Garrison can get back to being a great theatre, rather than an okay cinema.

 

(edit: removed a duplicitous 'folks')

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Personally i'd love an ice rink, but one thing at a time,......

 

Now that's where you're wrong!

 

Mareel will be everything for everybody all at the same time.

 

I'm sure an ice-rink could be squeezed in between the matinee and the North Star Rock-fest DJ set thingy at night. Wouldn't matter too much if the floor was a bit icy, it would give revellers an excuse for how they came to fall over!

 

Jack of all trades......Master of none.

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That's what I was thinking, you've got about 22k people on Shetland, if there was a significant demand for a cinema then why haven't one of the chains put one up?.

 

Because it would not make a return on the investment.

The Mareel analysis has them making enough income to more or less cover the running costs. A business setup would want to cover the running costs, it's £9M mortgage payments and a healthy profit before they would look at it.

 

That's the point I was making there isn't one because a cinema isn't financially viable in an area where the population is so small and scattered.

 

The case "for" is that if you invest the capital money, the running costs will be self financing, with no future revenue drains year on year. That may or may not be decided to be acceptable, but as has been discussed, is a more positive long term outlook than a lot of other council projects where you spend the inital costs and then that commits you to spending more each year to not "waste" the investment.

 

That would obviously not be acceptable for a purely private venture, as it would not get back the capital.

 

There is a case that the council should maybe look to get it's capital money back too, but that kind of change of approach would have very heavy implications on everything council related.

 

Is that not what we were told regarding the SRT? The increase in electricity costs alone must blow a hole into the cost neutral time period.

 

The SIC must grasp what will happen in the future and bring some sort of financial prudence into play. What are essential services and what are luxuries?

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This all seems a long way off from DITT's original proposal to build a cinema and bowling alley. Presumably it was borderline for making a return on investment.

 

Only in Shetland could the logical solution become something which can never pay for itself and relies on endless huge amounts of subsidy.

 

If Mareel's as good as we're told it would be, it shouldn't need any subsidy. After all music and alcohol are popular commodities in Shetland, put them together and you should have no worries???

 

Get down to the bank and get a loan somebody.

 

That old proverb about P*** Ups and Breweries springs readily to mind.

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Only in Shetland could the logical solution become something which can never pay for itself and relies on endless huge amounts of subsidy.

 

If Mareel's as good as we're told it would be, it shouldn't need any subsidy. After all music and alcohol are popular commodities in Shetland, put them together and you should have no worries???

 

Again, the business proposal is for Mareel to not need any subsidy for running costs after the first few years. No subsidy. It does not say it will pay back the capital costs, that one off expenditure would have to be seen to be worth it for the benefits that having the place would bring in over its lifetime.

 

You can argue that the business model is not solid, although I don't think it has been questioned by anybody that has been through the figures, but on their own numbers they are not planning to ask for a subsidy.

 

There is plenty to debate on the pros and cons of the reality of the proposal, maybe we could try that stuff?

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Is that not what we were told regarding the SRT? The increase in electricity costs alone must blow a hole into the cost neutral time period.

 

The SIC must grasp what will happen in the future and bring some sort of financial prudence into play. What are essential services and what are luxuries?

 

The SRT was always going to be subsidised. It was originally provided with a lump sum to invest by the Charitable Trust so as to generate income to subsidise its operation. Later the CT took the lump sum back and now provides the SRT with annual grants.

 

The SIC doesn't finance the SRT so whether it is a luxury or not isn't relevant.

 

Agree that some financial prudence would be good.

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The SIC doesn't finance the SRT so whether it is a luxury or not isn't relevant.

 

 

Thats the kind of arguement that really rattles my cage. It's like the "but that's not Capital, that's revenue so thats not relevant" arguement.

 

Bottom line is that whether the money comes from SIC, CT or this budget or the next, it's all 'our' money and once it's spent, it's spent.

 

If Mareel can be built and run for what were being told then it's gonna be better value than any of the leisure centres, ferries, aquaculture ventures, shipping companys, bridges or whatever we seem to gladly throw money at, and there's no doubt in my mind that Mareel will be an asset to Shetland. Only question is will it be value for money.

 

To follow your own arguement, The SIC won't be subsidising Mareel, The CT have underwritten their first year losses (even if it's trillions, it's not the SIC so it's not relevant) and after that it's Arts Trust, then self financing, So whether it's a luxury or not isn't relevant.

 

Agree that some financial prudence would be good.

 

If you think the millions spent on SRT are irrelevant because it's not SIC spending then I think that statement could do with a little rethink.

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To follow your own arguement, The SIC won't be subsidising Mareel, The CT have underwritten their first year losses (even if it's trillions, it's not the SIC so it's not relevant) and after that it's Arts Trust, then self financing, So whether it's a luxury or not isn't relevant.

 

The SIC are subsidising Mareel to the tune of £5.2 Million from their Capital Programme. This leaves Shetland Arts to find the shortfall of around £2 million plus the inevitable over-spend in construction.

 

The Flea could yet prove to be a bigger obstacle than the petrol tanks!

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