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Scottish National Party in the 2007 election


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AndDenWeMadeTea wrote:-

Derrick...this brings me on to Scotland. The majority of the Scots are not in favour of independence, (52% I think!!) Yet it looks - unforuntately- like you may be doing well at Holyrood at the coming election. Where does this leave you??? People might be voting for you, but with NO real realisation that they are in fact voting for independence???

 

Oh come on!. Give the voters credit for having more than one brain cell. The whole point of the SNP is to campaign for an Independent Scotland and has been so for several decades.

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However great, applicable and forward thinking the SNP policies are, you are a naionalist, separtist movement..

 

Nationalist yes, but Scottish Nationalist rather than British Nationalist - these being the two choices available. Disagree with the 'separatist' tag though - we want to 'get back on the world' in our own right, just like all our prosperous, liberal, independent, neighbours. That's not 'separatism' it's 'joining-in-ism'

 

... to what extent is you objective of independence going to cause reall divisions in Scottish society. .

 

To no extent, because we will go at the speed of the majority. No faster, no slower. E.g. I am not at all a monarchist, but am quite happy for the Queen to be Head of State in Independent Scotland, because lots of people have an attachment to the Queen. Might be cheaper than having elections for a president anyway. And so on and so forth.

 

...Think about mixed Scottish-English ethinic families, think about people working together for local and national economies, think about where OUR country is going.

 

Tell you what, I will go and ask the Englishwoman I wake up alongside every morning, and see what she thinks!!

 

For my money, the most positive outcome of Scottish Independence when it eventually comes, will be an Independent England, free of the baggage of the Empire (RIP good riddance). Adieu to Maggie and/or Bliar on a tank. Adieu to poncing about on the 'world stage' and starting wars here there and everywhere. Hello true English heroes like Alan Tichmarsh and hello to the the Deep Heart of England - gardening on the allottment in the 'Dirty Old Town', pottering around with their old steam engines, loving their pets more than people, obsessing about antiques, and all the slightly dotty things that make England truly great, or will do when the 'British' baggage is left behind. B*ll*cks to Rule Brittannia: Blake and Shakespear and Dunkertons Cider rule!

 

So that makes me a Sheltand, Scottish Nationalist, who thinks England is (potentially) great, but that 'Britain' is a geographical region, like Scandinavia, and not a nation. Accept you have a different view, but we'll keep trying to persuade you.

 

could you leave off the constant mentions of Hitler please.

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Lets get some facts about Bavaria to emphasise my point.

 

Socially, is it not true that Bavarians like to show pride in their traditions? So to do us Scots. Also, In constrast to the sometimes formal traditions and outlook to other parts of Germany, Bavarians are commonly known to be more individual in outlook, and adhere to more folk tradtiions. Is this whole culture not shown off to the world with the annual Oktoberfest?

Bavarian culture might not have any extra status in Germany as a whole, but within Bavaria it is unique and Bavarian people believe it to be do.

 

Religiously, Bavaria tend to be more Catholic as opposed to much of the north of Germany which is protestant.

 

Politically, as islandhopper ('Dear') - and lets try not to take offence by by patronising words here :wink: , )points out, Bavaria has long been the stronghold of right wing politics in Germany. Again, this makes Bavaria unique part of the country. Remember that before Devolution came into place in Scotland, Scotland had political differences with the overriding strengh of Labour, its Eduation sytstem and law. These political difference continue - but we have much in common with England also.

 

As far as Gaeilic/Scots is concerned, it has only been given special status since Devolution. Also, Devolution may well have achieved more than Bavaria with there being a more 'reserved' matters pro Berlin, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that Bavaria - with all these constraints- is STILL a unique, individual state within a national Germany. There is no reason why Scotland - with its identity - should not continue to flourish as a unique, independent part of the UK!! (as I am sure it will) Perhaps I could be an exponent of more powers for Bavarian independence within a 'United Germany'.!!!

 

Just me....I did not give coters credit for having less than one brain cell. But, my point is that a lot of people will just use the SNP as a protest vote against the current bungling Labour Scottish administration. It is not becasue Scottish people really want independence - and the polls have proved that.

 

Derick. Apolgies for continuing to reference that man. The main reason for that was just to exemply Salmonds sheer political opportunism. I would argue that Scotland IS in the world in its own right, and is in the lucky position to continue in partnership with our good neighbours, England, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

 

"Adieu to poncing about on the 'world stage' and starting wars here there and everywhere. Hello true English heroes like Alan Tichmarsh and hello to the the Deep Heart of England - gardening on the allottment in the 'Dirty Old Town', pottering around with their old steam engines, loving their pets more than people, obsessing about antiques, and all the slightly dotty things that make England truly great, or will do when the 'British' baggage is left behind. B*ll*cks to Rule Brittannia: Blake and Shakespear and Dunkertons Cider rule!"

 

I feel that you statements above are negative and almost verging on racist!! Is that the kind of 'forward thinking' SNP you claim to represent?? You nearly convinced me until coming out with that rant.......Could you imagine our southern neighbours speaking of us like that - we'd be up in arms!!! Appart from the imperialistic things, those are some of things which make England great, and they should rightly feell proud of it - just like we should in our history, culture and identity!!

 

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ADMT - I am entirely baffled as ta whit wey du manages ta misconstrue my genuine admiration fur whit I consider ta be da best things aboot da English character, as racist. ????

 

So, Yes ta the Cross o St George, and No ta da Union Jack

and of coorse Yes ta da Saltire.

 

Germany is a genuine federal state - a partnership o reasonably equal regions. Think o Germany original history as a mirge o peerie independent kingdoms, afore Bismark B*ggered it up.

 

Da UK is not

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Da only wie at da Scots dinna vote SNP (sorry Derek, it's easier writin English) is that they have been drip-fed the lie that they are useless, supplicant crap for the past 300 years.

 

The situation is analagous to a mentally abused wife who is afraid to leave her lazy, bullying husband who tells here continually that she is lucky he does not boot her out in which case she could not possibly exist on her own!

 

Of course the poor woman is waiting on the cad hand and foot, sorting out trouble he has caused with their neighbours, finding the ocassional oil gusher in their back yard and would be far better off divorcing the lazy, useless sod.

 

We hear continually in this independance debate how strong the English economy is. I have yet to understand what it is based on, how a country that produces nothing and exports nothing can have a strong economy. I suppose it is the funny money economy that consists of electrons flying round in City of London computers and the means to continue fleecing Johnny foreigners long after they have excaped from the commonwealth.

 

It is little wonder depression and alchoholism is so prevalent in Northern and indigenous cultures world-wide when they find themselves over-run and then subject to a deluge of propaganda to the effect that they are fundamentally useless and that they should be eternally grateful to their conquerors who have delivered them from the darkness.

 

You can believe that if you want - I reckon I can achieve most things I set my mind to and have every confidence most of my countryfolk can do the same, given the right encouragment.

 

The weakness of the Union and Westminster government for Scotland and rural areas in general is perfectly illustrated by the mess that has been made of the fishing industry - a pawn that has been continually sacrificed at EU level so that Tony and his predecessors could get deals on issues more central to their concerns. Another example is the strong pound - a byproduct o the desire to keep the whole house price house of cards (couldn't think o a better way to put it) from crashing down - but pretty disastrous for Scotland which remains an exporting economy - just - in spite of the hostile trading conditions foisted on it by London.

 

I'm no economist but it strikes me the UK economy is the classic house of sand, British liquidity is based largely on loans on houses that are valued at several times their actual cost to build - I think when the situation becomes overheated to that extent you are in deep, deep doodoo when it becomes unravelled.

 

Britain in 20 years time? My guess is it will bankrupt and riven by the kind of political extremism nobody will benefit from.

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Digitaldodo haes a point. 'Inferiorisation' I wid caa it.

 

Whit aboot some policy, as proposed bi SNP fur da devolved parliament?

 

1 SNP will abolish Cooncil Tax, an shift da 20% or so o cooncil income at's raised bi dat, on ta a new Local Income Tax wi-in da 3%.

We consider dat will be fairer: agree or disagree?

 

2 From 'The first 100 days of an SNP government' Executive Summary page 10 'Taking Devolution Forward'

"We will publish proposals to bring parliament closer to the people of Scotland, with greater support for backbench legislative proposals, an opportunity for citizens to propose debates in parliament and a mechanism to allow for the best supported public petition in any year to be brought forward as a detailed legislative proposal"

 

Do you tink, o Shetlinkes dat dis is a good idea, or a bad idea?

 

I wance hed a girlfriend from Maine - whaur dey hae a similar provision for Initiative Referenda. Dey hed een at gaddered da requisite 100s thoosans signatures and becam law. 'The Bottle Bill' - all drinks containers ta be recyclable. In 1979. We hae a lok a catchin up ta do!

 

3 From 'The first 100 days of an SNP government'

Executive Departments will be cut from nine to six. These being:

1 Department of the First Minister.

2 Department for Finance and Sustainable Growth

3 Department for Health and Wellbeing

4 Department for Education and Skills

5 Department for Rural Affairs

6 Department of Justice

Administrative savings will be redirected to frontline services.

 

Reduce number o Executive Departments: Agree or disagree?

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Taking your say serious

The issue is that Bavaria - with all these constraints- is STILL a unique, individual state within a national Germany.

there is absolutely no reason to highlight Bavaria.

 

In this sence there are 16 (sixteen) "STILL (a) unique, individual state(s) within a national Germany" ...

 

... with only one having an "Oktoberfest" (welcome to the stereotypes ;-) )which is unfortunately promoted as "Bavarian culture" or even "German culture" with 1000s of Bavarian folks hopping around in "their national" dress of jumpers and Lederhosen (which are different to the kilt no invention of the late 17th century but a tradition of the late 19th century and thus younger than most of the other "national dresses" in different German regions).

 

Sorry, but sometimes you have to pinpoint to an extreme:

When I see how the Norwegian Constitution Day is celebrated in just one town (Kirkwall) on only one day of the year there is mutch more cultural uniqueness and identity represented by an island cummunity and compared to the rest of Scotland than there is a "unique Bavarian tradition" representing local identity in all the rest of 364 days of the year (Oktoberfest included) ... ;-)

 

By the way: I absolutely agree with your response to the (quoted) "italics" in your last post ... ;-)

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  • 2 weeks later...
?

 

" Aa we ever got fae Scotland wis dear meal an'greedy Ministers"

 

Also Brochs, lochs, burns an 'wirds at Scott wret mony a time an Robbie Burns sang' (as wis wi Vagaland).

 

And crofting, da first proper education system in Europe, Da HIDB, Da Hydro Board eteracetera.

 

I look forward ta da day at da Norwegian Imperialists apologises fur der temporary depredations on da Pictish Kingdoms. Thinks - mebbe Blair could do it fur dem, if he's no ida clink for selling Peerages dat is.

 

Doon wi da Tory/Labour Cooncil Tax!

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" Aa we ever got fae Scotland wis dear meal an'greedy Ministers"

 

Also Brochs, lochs, burns an 'wirds at Scott wret mony a time an Robbie Burns sang' (as wis wi Vagaland).

 

I had no idea that our brochs, lochs and burns were imported from Scotland. That must have been some haulage job!

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?

 

" Aa we ever got fae Scotland wis dear meal an'greedy Ministers"

 

And crofting,

 

I think you'll find people were crofting in Shetland before 1469. In fact, they were doing much better at it before they had to start giving up their produce to Scots landlords.

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Broch - an Iron Age dry ston structure o a type dat is ony found in Scotland. Evolved fae Atlantic Wheelhouse, also ony found in Scotland.

 

Burn - a neem fur a peerie river in Scotland, Northern England and pairts o Ireland. Da wird apperintly derives fae Northumbrian.

 

Ah greedy Scots landlords an hardy freedom loving udallers. Whaur do you start wi dat een! No wirt da budder really.

 

Mmmm, still. I grew up lookin at da cleared crofts o Sooth Aywick. Wheydir it's right or no, I'm aye heard da landlord responsible wis wan Pole Hoseason fae Mossbank. Hoseason. a guid scotch neem, dat. Greed has no nationality.

 

I suppose dey wir no landlords pre 14whitiver it wis! Aye right.

 

An da Romans, dunna get me started on da Romans.

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