Scottish National Party in the 2007 election

[Strawb]

Broch - an Iron Age dry ston structure o a type dat is ony found in Scotland. Evolved fae Atlantic Wheelhouse, also ony found in Scotland.

 

Burn - a neem fur a peerie river in Scotland, Northern England and pairts o Ireland. Da wird apperintly derives fae Northumbrian.

 

Ah greedy Scots landlords an hardy freedom loving udallers. Whaur do you start wi dat een! No wirt da budder really.

 

Mmmm, still. I grew up lookin at da cleared crofts o Sooth Aywick. Wheydir it's right or no, I'm aye heard da landlord responsible wis wan Pole Hoseason fae Mossbank. Hoseason. a guid scotch neem, dat. Greed has no nationality.

 

I suppose dey wir no landlords pre 14whitiver it wis! Aye right.

 

An da Romans, dunna get me started on da Romans.

 

Some argument this, we should all want to be part of an independant Scotland because a few things in Shetland are named by the Scots?? Are you aware that we also speak English? As, fundamentally, does the rest of Scotland. I could sit here for hours and quote you Norse influences in Shetland too (hence all the road signs, Leir-vik etc etc). This does not mean that I am anti Scottish, pro English or obsessed with Norway. In fact none of these things bear on my political view. I just do not believe in Nationalist politics, be it SNP, BNP or UKIP. I believe that it's naive in the extreme and that there are far more important things for the MSPs to concentrate on, rather than the SNP playing house.

[Styles]

I allways thought that it would be a laugh if Scotland got independance and then Shetland and Orkney got it shortley after and took all their oil assets with them. That would be interesting and ironic.

[Fjool]

After that Sullom Voe would become an independent state and take all the oil with it.

[junior]

Indeed, presumably Unst could get independence and claim all fields to the North.

 

Oil is a global resource, I don't understand why people think it is their right to plunder that resource just because they happen to be closest to it.

[Para Handy]

I allways thought that it would be a laugh if Scotland got independance and then Shetland and Orkney got it shortley after and took all their oil assets with them. That would be interesting and ironic.

 

Alex Salmond would never let Shetland have independence. I heard him say in an interview one day that the oil money coming in to Shetland belonged to Scotland and not Shetlands. And if the SNP do win in Scotland. How come Alex Salmond would be come first minister. He is in the Westminster parliament and not the Scottish one. But as far as I can see. He seems to think he can just waltz in to the Scottish parliament any time he wants to.And take over.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Met Simon and Garfunkel down the pub, they told me every way I look at it I lose.

Have decided to declare myself a republic of one.

[derick]

 

I just do not believe in Nationalist politics, be it SNP, BNP or UKIP. I believe that it's naive in the extreme and that there are far more important things for the MSPs to concentrate on, rather than the SNP playing house.

 

Ah, but do you support a British Party - e.g Labour, Liberal, or Tory?

If so you presumably believe in British Nationalist Politics?!

 

Ah - Trident, whit a fine practical demonstration o British Internationalism.

 

To be an internationalist, you must first be a nationalist. Idderweys, der nautheen ta be 'inter' aboot.

 

Dis concept dat Shetlan is no pairt o Scotland is an interestin item. When did it arise - 19th century. I winder if it wis a backlash against da Scottish/Irish Home Rule agitation oda time - if so it is been a Unionist staple fae da first.

 

In my experience fok at promotes Sheltan separatism is invariably Unionist, an generally High Tories! Divide and Rule, nautheen more. Dey wir a Great een oda type postin on da Herald Forum laetly - scho couldna even spell Shettland right. Excellent!

[Strawb]

Well derick presumably if i'm going to vote, I can hardly vote for any party other than a British based one can I? I don't think I could be described as an 'internationalist' either. Maybe I'm no all that bothered about where people are from. Maybe I like a political party that has more than one discernable aim in their political life. Oh and I certainly ain't a Tory either! 8O 8O 8O

[AndDenWeMadeTea]

The article below might be of interest to some in this debate - on both sides. Islandhopper, I would be interested to get your opinion on the extract that I've quoted below.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/anatole_kaletsky/article1706338.ece

 

 

'For Europe the contagion effects of the first peaceful break-up of an advanced democratic country would be felt in many regions whose secessionist tendencies have historically been much stronger than Scotland’s – Catalonia, the Basque Country, Corsica, Wallonia, parts of Northern Italy, maybe even Bavaria. But of greater concern to Scots voters may be the economic effects on Scotland itself. '

[islandhopper]

'For Europe the contagion effects of the first peaceful break-up of an advanced democratic country would be felt in many regions whose secessionist tendencies have historically been much stronger than Scotland’s – Catalonia, the Basque Country, Corsica, Wallonia, parts of Northern Italy, maybe even Bavaria. But of greater concern to Scots voters may be the economic effects on Scotland itself. '

I am nearly sure that there will be no serious "contagion effects" as far as Bavaria is concerned. Some pub discussions might get a bit louder - that's all.

 

Although the Bavarian economy is far better off than the Scottish and although Bavaria is a net payer to the Federal Republic since decades the people know very well that the overall benefits from the federation are more than the surpluses they might gain on their own.

 

Just two examples:

i) Like an independent Scotland an independent Bavaria would have to apply again to join EU membership because the remains of the UK and the FRG only will remain as EU members automatically - then Bavaria would be a payer to the EU due to its economic strength and not only contributing to the German share of payments. That makes some difference Scotland, too and of course, would become a new member of the EU but under the conditions of all new members of the EU, at least the last E-10 - with the now existing 10% reduction on contributions to the EU remaining with the UK. That makes some difference, too

 

ii) In the case of Bavaria it is absolutely clear because it is calculated a hundred times: All of the now existing surpluses will be eaten up by remodelling all the federal bodies and authorities on the then new national Bavarian level. Just a minor example for that: Building and maintaning of motorways and long distance "A-roads" nowadays is a national federal task and will than be a national task for Bavaria for its own network. Border and immigration contral now is a national federal task and would then be a national Bavarian task. Imaging just the last point for an independent Scotland within the EU - Scotland would become a Schengen-Border-State of its own with all the neccessary services paid from Scottish funds not UK funds!

 

Honestly, I do believe that my Bavarian neighbours went deeper into the political and economical details of independency than did at least some particular Scots talking about independence. And in these terms political independence is really no favourable deal today.

 

As far as other aspects like cultural independence/identity are concerned they have the same status of autonomy as do have all the other federal states. Nevertheless it might be possible that in some special situation some politicians will claim the "independence argument" to get some more federal funding for regional culture projects ... but that happened all the time before, would not define a new position, it is political business as usual ... with a lot of "some" and "might bes" in it

 

Well, that's Bavaria or the German situation. I am not that sure about forthcoming events in Southern Tyrolia or the Basque ...

[in_vacanza]

I think the article that AndDenWeMadeTea quoted makes a good point in that nobody really knows if an independent Scotland would be better off economically. I don't think the economics of an independent Scotland should be the main issue. I think the majority of people in Scotland have left wing tendencies. For nearly 30 years the UK has either had a Tory or new labour government. Both of which have right wing tendencies. The only way I can see the people of Scotland getting the type of government that the majority want is through independence.

[derick]

Which takks wis back ta whaur we started - observin at aa da sma and NB Independent neebourin countries is very substantially wealthier as Scoland is.

 

GDP per capita in US dollars mainly 2002 figures

Scotland - $23,622 (2001 figure) - the "Union Dividend", apparintly.

UK - $26,150

Iceland - $29,750 (13.7% above UK)

Norway - £36,600 (40% above UK)

Denmark - $30,940 (18.3% above UKl)

Ireland - $36,360 (39% above UK)

 

I'm joost come back fae a couple a weeks in Iceland as it happens.

 

Iceland: history

870AD settled bi political exiles (Slave owning aristocratic fairmers, you might caa dem 'udallers') fae Norwa.

930AD Alting foonded - longest continuously operating democratic legislature ida world, albeit said slaves didna get a vote, and Alting operated in in shell foarm fur a couple hunder years during Union period

1281 Iceland annexed bi Norway

1397 taen inta Kalmar Union (along wi Norway, Sweden, Denmark) under Danish Crown)

1602 Danish trade monopoly on Iceland results in 250+ years o corruption, nepotism etc (soond familiar?)

Early 19th Century - birth o Icelandic nationalism

1855 Free Trade re-established after Nat pressure

1874 partial domestic Home Rule (devolution) re-established

1918 ´Home Rule Act´restores Iceland as full nation under Danish Crown. Dat wis ta be reviewed in 1940.

1940 Denmark occupied, Iceland forced to run all affairs - de facto Independence

1941 Alting formally declares Icelandic sovereignty

17 June 1944 Icelandic Independence Day.

 

21st Century

Iceland tap of aa quality o life indicators

Very prosperous, until da next big volcano nakkers things

Government is been a Tory/Liberal coalition fae 1995. Election dis year.

virtually crime free - no litter

NO such thing as da ´Icelandic Cringe´

NO Icelandic political pairties advocating renewed Union with Denmark

NO newspapers propagandising fur renewed Union with Denmark

Number of politicians whase careers depends on renewed Union with Denmark = NIL, ZERO, NOT A WAN

Number o demonstrations of angry Icelanders demanding renewed Union with Denmark = NIL

 

March 1st is informally National Beer Day, as dat wis da date proper beer was legalised in 1989 I tink. Drink drive limit 0.05% - basically nil.

 

Summary: Iceland, a cowld country moastly med a stons an ice but brimming wi self-confidence and prosperity. I towt it a truly Class place and weel wirt a veesit. Sort o a More Fun version of Norwa, wi volcanoes.

 

Whit do you say tae an Icelander at's lost in a Forest?

 

 

 

 

"Stand up"

[derick]

Toronto Star article on Scottish election

 

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/208350

[islandhopper]

The only way I can see the people of Scotland getting the type of government that the majority want is through independence.

Well, that might be right, but be aware it is a very risky game to play just for getting a new government you want to have.

 

You might get independence ...

... you then might get the government you want to have ...

... but then you might see that government you wanted "suffering from the slings and arrows of outreagous fortune" as "Big Willie The Soothmoother" described it a couple of years ago ...

 

To be or not to be ... not really the best of a political manifesto ...

[derick]

And an Irishman's view in Scotland on Sunday

 

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=757&id=659502007

 

sorry - no more links.

On Thursday - You decide