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Still less than infinite, so my point stands.


Not so much. Your point is moot.

Infinite is not required, nor produced by a traditional kit.


I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by 128 values; these are the basic MIDI volume levels. Stick several (say 3) sensors on a drum and you have a pad which is capable of returning over 2 million position and velocity vectors.


Think of it more like an artists digitising tablet whereby a signal consists of X,Y + pressure. A digital kit which works like this can quite easily produce wildly different noises when striking various parts of the same pad.


Much more variation of sound is possible, not less.


I'm curious to know why you think that analogue is somehow necessary here, but not with audio sampling?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Infinite is not...........produced by a traditional kit.


Of course it is.

I don't understand what you mean.


There is no limit to the amount of different noises I can get out of my acoustic snare drum. Sure, they all sound kind of like a snare drum and the variations can be miniscule, but that's kinda the point. Those, sometimes almost imperceptible, variations are what allow a good musician to play with what we commonly call "feel" or "expression".


(You could, of course, achieve this level of nuance by sticking an SM57 next to your V-Drum and tapping the side of it


:wink: )


I'm curious to know why you think that analogue is somehow necessary here, but not with audio sampling?




I think we've got crossed wires somewhere fjool. My argument hasn't got anything to do with audio sampling. It's about the way a drummer's hand and arm move and interact with a drum head and shell. And that, like it or not, is very much an analog process.

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I've run out of ways to repeat myself, McFly! :P


I'm not talking about audio sampling either. I mention it only because I'm confused as to why you feel that analogue reproduction is unimportant when sampling the noises, but somehow vital when recording where and how you strike the pad. The two are related in more ways than one. Here, in this discussion, I am considering only the technical argument of encoding an analogue signal (striking a skin). A decent digital pad can quite easily capture those nuances of which you speak. It may not do so in an analogue way, but the range of values are more than enough to allow the kit to reproduce sounds for stick position and attack. A decent kit will also happily produce rim-shots and side-sticking.


When I say that the range of sounds is not infinite I mean exactly as you put it, that 'they all sound kind of like a snare drum and the variations can be miniscule'. With a non-traditional kit, the range of values returned by each pad can, potentially, be in the millions (as you deftly ignored above). Each of these values can translate into a unique and/or subtly different sound, just as with your traditional snare. The net result is a pad which is just as expressive, if not more expressive (due to the ability to play wildly different samples at different places on the surface) than a traditional kit.


In another thread, you've claimed that an analogue audio signal can be faithfully reproduced using digital means. However, in this thread, you are arguing that a different analogue signal (the drummer's input, if you will) cannot be encoded successfully. I believe you are contradicting yourself and that both types of analogue input can be successfully captured and converted into appropriate digital position and strength information which, ultimately, will result in a convincing output.


One area we haven't mentioned are the cymbals and hi-hat. This, I feel, is where the current generation of digital kits don't perform as well. I've yet to see a system which allows the player to mute the cymbal by grabbing it, for example - nor do rubber cymbals have the same kineticism; the 'zzzing' of the stick on metal is very much missing, imho. Not sure the audience need notice this aspect however ;)


Honestly, digital drums need not be as crappy and inexpressive as you seem to believe they must.

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