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Alternative Energy Production - Tidal / Wave etc.


mgb2010
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Well, let me see, I have the choice of building a prototype in the sub-tropics or in some remote island group 63 degrees N where people get upset at being called gullible, when they are being just that, and their 'adventurous spirit' cannot raise a ticket on the boat.

 

Carry on, build your pitiful 'proven' windmills, run your diesel plants on ito infinity, destroy your heritage on the say-so of winf turbine salesmen's patter, and sell your souls down the river.

 

Ask not what the SIC can do for you, ask what you can do for Shetland (with apoligies to JFK).

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Well, let me see, I have the choice of building a prototype in the sub-tropics or in some remote island group 63 degrees N... <--snip-->

 

Did some new islands suddenly appear somewhere, or did someone get moved??

 

It's the heat off all these GENTEC venturi dotted all round the coast. We had to up anchor and move a bit north to cool down!

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That would be 7 times less electricity for 20 times the cost

 

Your deluding yourself. One of your own graphs showed that the whole cycle of tide - electricity - heat - steam - and then back to electricity was only about 60-70 percent efficient.

 

I know there is is no cost to generating the electricity in the first place but, a network of generators around the country would mean that there would always be some of them generating. Probably somewhere in the region of 150 percent of the electricity that your system would actually be available on the national grid .

 

GENTEC could be one method of producing a constant trickle of electricity on very small grid. But once attached to the national grid, it's just a total waste of money and energy.

 

I've had enough of your call people gullible. If you have no intention of actually providing a working example, please feel free to leave us and bother somebody else with your system.

 

In fact, don't even bother with the working example, I know it won't happen and even if it did, it's pretty pointless system for proper power generation. Just leave.

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That would be 7 times less electricity for 20 times the cost

 

Your deluding yourself. One of your own graphs showed that the whole cycle of tide - electricity - heat - steam - and then back to electricity was only about 60-70 percent efficient.

 

 

GENTEC could be one method of producing a constant trickle of electricity on very small grid. But once attached to the national grid, it's just a total waste of money and energy.

 

 

Thanks for that - so what you are saying is that my system, using your own undoubted razor sharp assessment skills, has twice the efficiency of an internal combustion engine. Clearly, you do not understand the term efficiency - perhaps you were adding and not multiplying?

 

GENTEC venturi, is the only renewable system that can provide constant output and peak shave to meet demands 24/7.

 

Using the correct definition of efficiency, my overall system efficiency will still be around 30%, but I have 240 times more energy available to play with than these unimagative windmills-under-the-sea-type devices that you favour and want to put all the way round the coast.

 

Pray, do tell me, where the high tide arrives anywhere in the UK 3 hours and 6 minutes after high tide in Dover so that your simplistic electromechanical devices will be operating at full capacity 180 degrees out of phase?

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Pray, do tell me, where the high tide arrives anywhere in the UK 3 hours and 6 minutes after high tide in Dover so that your simplistic electromechanical devices will be operating at full capacity 180 degrees out of phase?

 

First high tide in Dover today was 00.23

First high tide in Leith was 04.10

 

In answer to your question, I'd say somewhere between the two.

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Thanks for that - so what you are saying is that my system, using your own undoubted razor sharp assessment skills, has twice the efficiency of an internal combustion engine.

 

Who mentioned internal combustion engines???? Internal combustion starts with chemical potential energy (in the form of fuel), most of which is wasted in the process of conversion to usable kinetic energy and unavoidable.

 

Your system starts with electricity, messes around with it, to provide a constant trickle of electricity and in the mean time wastes a lot of energy for no reason.

 

A turbine in the tidal flow producing electricity directly for the grid will only loose a tiny amount of energy (in transmission) and certainly nothing near a third.

 

Deluded. Honestly, you may have convinced yourself, but no one else.

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Pray, do tell me, where the high tide arrives anywhere in the UK 3 hours and 6 minutes after high tide in Dover so that your simplistic electromechanical devices will be operating at full capacity 180 degrees out of phase?

 

First high tide in Dover today was 00.23

First high tide in Leith was 04.10

 

In answer to your question, I'd say somewhere between the two.

 

Brilliant, except for the fact we are talking about tidal streams. Using the Pentland Firth as the datum, Dover (Scrabster-02:15), so we need a location that is either -5:21 or +1 that also has a high tidal stream. There is none. Portland Bill at -04:23 is the only real contender but it is about an hour off the 180 degree phase shift required.

 

The Lunar Energy 2MW machine requires a tidal stream velocity of 3.1m/s subsea (this translates as a surface velocity of 4m/s - this velocity is very high and only Pentland and Portland Bill can achieve this during Springs for a few hours)

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Who mentioned internal combustion engines????

 

Your system starts with electricity, messes around with it, to provide a constant trickle of electricity and in the mean time wastes a lot of energy for no reason.

 

 

I mentioned ICEs because of your ludicrous statement that my system is only 60% efficient. Any bit of machinery with that kind of system efficiency floats my boat but apparently sinks your one.

 

My system does not start with electricity. This only goes to show your inability to grasp even the fundamentals of tidal stream as a prime mover. To recap, for your benefit alone, all the power under the power(y-axis) curve set against time (x-axis) is converted to heat and stored. Say, the power graph peaks at 10MW three hours after slack water then the energy stored will be (2x6x10)/pi = 38MWh. Over the same period a conventional marine turbine may have generated 6MWh for the National Grid so that in this example I have stored 7 times more power, thermally.

 

Still with me? Now, if I can convert this thermal power back to shaft power to turn a generator with a conversion efficiency of 50% I can put 19MWh(e) onto the grid at any time of my chosing!

 

Now, maybe before you blast away again in some other ill-informed rant you should maybe reread the above over and over, take notes if necessary, because you need to brush up on youu comprehension skills.

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the energy stored will be (2x6x10)/pi = 38MWh. Over the same period a conventional marine turbine may have generated 6MWh for the National Grid so that in this example I have stored 7 times more power, thermally.

 

7 x 6 = 42

 

you need to brush up on youu comprehension skills.

 

You need to brush up on your numeracy skills.

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My system does not start with electricity.
One of your own graphs showed that the whole cycle of tide - electricity - heat - steam - and then back to electricity was only about 60-70 percent efficient.
Turbine in the water converts kinetic energy into electrical energy; the electrical energy heats the water by immersion heaters

 

If after the turbine in the water converts kinetic energy into electrical energy, put it straight onto the national grid you would get 150% the amount of electricity compared to running it through this pointless cycle of heating water to make steam.

 

I mentioned ICEs because of your ludicrous statement that my system is only 60% efficient.

 

I mentioned the 60% efficiency to show how ludicrous it is to waste 40% of the energy heating up water to create steam to drive yet another generator.

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the energy stored will be (2x6x10)/pi = 38MWh. Over the same period a conventional marine turbine may have generated 6MWh for the National Grid so that in this example I have stored 7 times more power, thermally.

 

7 x 6 = 42

 

you need to brush up on youu comprehension skills.

 

You need to brush up on your numeracy skills.

 

ok I should have said .............nearly 7 times more.........no pedantry there then!

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............ compared to running it through this pointless cycle of heating water to make steam.

 

I mentioned the 60% efficiency to show how ludicrous it is to waste 40% of the energy heating up water to create steam to drive yet another generator.

 

What exactly is pointless in creating 7 times more non-intermittent electricity for the grid?

 

I am not wasting 40% of the energy heating up the water - I am gaining 240 times more energy - what part of that do not get? I think that you have been speed reading again - I used to do Comprehension at school - did you?

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If all your calculations are that far out, your system has big problems.

 

Aye, right. If I give you the information to six decimal places you still would not get it.

 

I was attempting to simplify by rounding up my numbers but to no avail. It seems that I have hit a blank wall of technical comprehension.

 

I am still waiting for a sensible technical question that demostrates that some of you actually have the vaguest understanding of engineering.

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