Jump to content

Alternative Energy Production - Tidal / Wave etc.


mgb2010
 Share

Recommended Posts

The horizontal dotted line is set at 2000kW or to put it another way 2MW.

 

Did you draw it free hand? It certainly isn't to scale...

 

If as you say LE device is only generating at certain periods of tidal flow, how is it that your turbine can produce electricity to run the immersion heaters to store ALL of the available energy? If you've got a more efficient turbine (due siting nearer the surface of whatever), fair enough, but why bother with the thermal stores? The Thermal store is just going to introduce inefficiencies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The horizontal dotted line is set at 2000kW or to put it another way 2MW.

 

Did you draw it free hand? It certainly isn't to scale...

 

If as you say LE device is only generating at certain periods of tidal flow, how is it that your turbine can produce electricity to run the immersion heaters to store ALL of the available energy? If you've got a more efficient turbine (due siting nearer the surface of whatever), fair enough, but why bother with the thermal stores? The Thermal store is just going to introduce inefficiencies.

 

It certainly is to scale. This graph was generated by an Excel spreadsheet and it is therefore perfect in scale. What you cannot get is that your lauded scientists and academics are content to discard 10 times the power that they actually generate when the tide is at its Zenith.

 

Outrageous state of affairs but true all the same.

 

So, just for a moment consider that I am !00% right on this and study the claims made by Lunar Energy for its proposed 2MW machine and you will realise that the maximum output from 2MW generator is 2MW - this line is shown as a 5th of the way up from between 0 and 10000kW on my graph (2000kW = 2MW) - or have I got that wrong too?

 

The main reason that I store the electicity as heat and back to electricity is that the electrical output from Gv is now non-intermittent. Now, I accept that most people do not realise the significance of that statement, but by producing 'firm' power 24/7 from a renewable energy source has, firstly, never been done before and, secondly, will replace the burning of all fossil fuels.

 

Another point is that the output from my marine turbines is asynchronous and not suitable for the grid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off current topic,

 

Anybody want to hazard a guess at how many miles of underground pipe would be needed to extract enough energy to make a ground source heat pump power one of Greenheatman's thermal stores?

 

I think it's something like 100m to provided 5kw of heating to a house. But to overcome the energy used by the reversed refrigeration part, there would need to be bit fair bit more.

 

Get your calculators out and no graphs please....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

greenheatman wrote

he main reason that I store the electicity as heat and back to electricity is that the electrical output from Gv is now non-intermittent. Now, I accept that most people do not realise the significance of that statement, but by producing 'firm' power 24/7 from a renewable energy source has, firstly, never been done before and, secondly, will replace the burning of all fossil fuels.

That statement is just plain wrong. Hydro electric and geothermal schemes work just fine 24/7. Ok so I admit that I am not certain about geothermal schemes producing electricity but they certainly produce heat which will reduce the demand for electricity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

greenheatman wrote
he main reason that I store the electicity as heat and back to electricity is that the electrical output from Gv is now non-intermittent. Now, I accept that most people do not realise the significance of that statement, but by producing 'firm' power 24/7 from a renewable energy source has, firstly, never been done before and, secondly, will replace the burning of all fossil fuels.

That statement is just plain wrong. Hydro electric and geothermal schemes work just fine 24/7. Ok so I admit that I am not certain about geothermal schemes producing electricity but they certainly produce heat which will reduce the demand for electricity.

 

My statement is just plain right. Hydro schemes in Scotland have a capacity factor of around 20%. In other countries, with the added benefit of glacial icemelt, this rises to 99% in Norway, 57% in Canada, and 55% in Switzerland (all falling due to the effects of global warming) Also, in terms of geothermal; these plant have to move every few years (months) as their heat source operating temperature falls to below acceptable limits. (oh, yes, geothermal plants do generate electricity from the hot water supplied by heat from radiactive decay. Gv, on the other hand will generate electricity from hot water supplied by heat from tidal stream - still not twigging?)

 

Is this the best that you can do? Split hairs over huge environmentally damaging hydro schemes and mobile geothermal units?

 

I was wondering why it has all gone quiet on the Northern front - has it finally sunk in that I am not creating energy but capturing 10 times more of it and using this hitherto discarded power to generate electricity 24/7 and desalinate water 24/7. (Does hydro and geothermal desalinate too?)

 

Now, I am wondering who will be the first to apologise and admit, unreservedly, that they were wrong and I was 100% right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^

I'm loving those Emoticons! Good work, Malachy

 

And just in case Greenheatman is still reading, I never said the 20,000kw was not the same as 20MW (the dig was obviously at me). I called into question your ability to keep everything on one graph to one scale, which you hadn't.

 

Cheerio GHM, hope you don't waste too much more of your time harrassing people. If nobody wants Gv, just build one for yourself, make yourself self sufficent and have a nice peaceful life. If it's as good as you say, eventually someone will coming looking for you rather than your current tactic of winding everybody up, as it's not gonna sell many units.

 

Back to my ground source heat pump, 100? 200? How many miles would be needed to produce electricity??? :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^

I'm loving those Emoticons! Good work, Malachy

 

I called into question your ability to keep everything on one graph to one scale, which you hadn't.

 

 

"It certainly is to scale. This graph was generated by an Excel spreadsheet and it is therefore perfect in scale."

"It certainly is to scale. This graph was generated by an Excel spreadsheet and it is therefore perfect in scale."

"It certainly is to scale. This graph was generated by an Excel spreadsheet and it is therefore perfect in scale."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.greenheating.com/Resources/Image42.gif

 

 

The x-axis is in hours and the y-axis is in MW - this means that the area under all the lines can be expressed as MWh. Agreed?

 

The red dotted line running along the bottom close to the x-axis is the output from the LE's device, all 7MWh(e) of it, because it can only generate at its generator's rating - despite the fact that nearly 22MW of shaft power is available at the tide's zenith. So in effect, LE is discarding 20MW(mechanical) while it is putting its maximum 2MW(electrical) onto the grid.

 

What is the maximum point that the red dotted line gets to on this graph?

 

It sure isn't the 2MW that is supposed to get to.

 

If it was generated by excel then, it means that you've input the wrong figures....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

greenheatman wrote

My statement is just plain right. Hydro schemes in Scotland have a capacity factor of around 20%

 

Just what is the capacity factor that is so low in Scotland compared to other places?. If you mean that they only produce 20% or Scotland's energy requirements then so what?. That is because we need more of them. They can be switched on and off to suit demand, run on rainwater that does not need desalination and in the short term can also be incorporated into pumped storage schemes using surplus energy from other generation methods to top up the reservoir at the top of the hill such as the Dinorwic scheme. http://home.clara.net/darvill/altenerg/pumped.htm

 

In fact that link leads to some fairly well informed articles about alternative energy and we should all be looking at it in detail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What is the maximum point that the red dotted line gets to on this graph?

 

It sure isn't the 2MW that is supposed to get to.

 

If it was generated by excel then, it means that you've input the wrong figures....

 

The uncorrected graph was uploaded - the LE's electrical power line is sitting at around 1850kW because the 2000kW refers to the raw low speed shaft power before the power train.

 

http://www.greenheating.com/Resources/Image43.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

greenheatman wrote
My statement is just plain right. Hydro schemes in Scotland have a capacity factor of around 20%

 

Just what is the capacity factor that is so low in Scotland compared to other places?

 

Capacity factor refers to the percentage of the year that any generating plant can operate at full capacity output. That was the traditional way that the term was used until the renewable energy industry moved the goalposts by aggregating all MWh produced annually at any old capacity and dividing that number by the maximum theoretical out put over a six month period. Dividing any number by 0.5 effectively doubles it so that a 30% capacity factor for a wind turbine is really 15% using the traditional method.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there was someone who understood graphs, and they told you to go away, would you go away ?

 

Yes, bring him or her on.

 

Still waiting -where can you find anybody that understands graphs?

As you've already dismissed a time-served engineer and at least two people who have studied maths to university level as not qualified enough to understand your graph it might take a couple of days :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...