Alternative Energy Production - Tidal / Wave etc.

[trout]

For the sake of the debate I was putting a blind eye to semantics and taking that as a two way process. Electricity up for electricity down.

 

Ideally greenheatman will come back and explain this further

[peeriebryan]

Can't they be bumped by 'cascade'? I.e. start one by cranking a handle, and use the juice from that to get the next going?

 

That would seem the sensible way to do it. I have no idea how the power distribution set up will work, but you'd think they'd be grouped together and kick in one at a time, and when one was bumped, it would start another in it's local group

 

It doesn't make any sense to import mainland power to start some generators in Shetland. The resistive losses of voltage step up/down and transmitting the electricity twice would be huge

[greenheatman]

Can't they be bumped by 'cascade'? I.e. start one by cranking a handle, and use the juice from that to get the next going?

 

That would seem the sensible way to do it. I have no idea how the power distribution set up will work, but you'd think they'd be grouped together and kick in one at a time, and when one was bumped, it would start another in it's local group

 

It doesn't make any sense to import mainland power to start some generators in Shetland. The resistive losses of voltage step up/down and transmitting the electricity twice would be huge

 

Induction generators need to induce main quality electricity on their squirrel cage all of the time that they are working - why is everybody talking about synchronous generators being bumps started?

 

The reason I said that most of the electricity will be going one way is that, except for about 10% of the year at 500MW, this 600MW wind farm will be generating at a paltry 85MW - just enough to keep Shetland going - when the wind blows

[Fjool]

Why is everybody talking about synchronous generators being bumps started?

 

You started it....

 

There are two main types of generators, induction and synchronous - the ones on Fair Isle are sychronous and do require a bump start using pilot excitation circuitry connected to banks of batteries.

 

*shrug*

[greenheatman]

Why is everybody talking about synchronous generators being bumps started?

 

You started it....

 

There are two main types of generators, induction and synchronous - the ones on Fair Isle are sychronous and do require a bump start using pilot excitation circuitry connected to banks of batteries.

 

*shrug*

 

I mentioned it in passing that the Fair Isle wind turbines are a different breed of wind turbine, ie synchronous. The proposed wind farm is going to use wind turbines with induction generators - this type of generator may be described as a kind of amplifier of mains quality electricity - small signal in - larger signal out.

 

Clearly, this passing remark about the Fair Isle synchronous generators was too much information for some, and has caused some confusion.

 

The interconnector, if built, will consist of two circuits - one for importing stable electricity for 'amplification' through these induction generators, the second for exporting dribbles of intermittent electricity south - if it is not all used on Shetland that is.

[Fjool]

Clearly, this passing remark about the Fair Isle synchronous generators was too much information for some, and has caused some confusion.

 

To be honest, the explanation could have been much clearer. Do you find folks often misunderstand you?

 

For example, you also said:

 

The induction generator requires quite a lot of mains current at 50Hz to be applied to the the 'squirrel cage' particularly at start up.

 

Which, when closely followed by your talk of 'bump'-ing the generators, is a bit misleading, no?

 

 

Besides.... I dunno about importing stable electricity; I think I prefer the wiggly stuff we have at the moment. The stable stuff tends to come in batteries and I heard that those were bad for the environment. Would this stable electricity be shipped in? Why do we need the tube? Is it because we're so far north that the electricity can't run uphill to us properly?

[BigMouth]

We're not worthy

We're not worthy

 

[trout]

Clearly, this passing remark about the Fair Isle synchronous generators was too much information for some, and has caused some confusion.

 

Well, you know - I'm just thankful that you're here to clear up your rather misleading posts on the topic

 

Re-read over the posts and you might see that I and others are trying to draw you into talking about your invention and to share your knowledge on the subject of renewable technologies. To draw you into the debate.

[greenheatman]

Essentially, I have lost interest in discussing this serious subject when people simply 'speed read' what I have to say. Not surprisingly, when they are digesting every third or fourth word - they either come back with some flippant remark or hurl abuse at me for having the audacity to actually talk technical.

 

All the information explaining how my system works has already been posted on this forum and if anybody really wants to understand it then just read it, nay study it, very carefully.........and do try to read every word in the right order .........it does help!

[greenheatman]

Clearly, this passing remark about the Fair Isle synchronous generators was too much information for some, and has caused some confusion.

 

To be honest, the explanation could have been much clearer. Do you find folks often misunderstand you?

 

For example, you also said:

 

The induction generator requires quite a lot of mains current at 50Hz to be applied to the the 'squirrel cage' particularly at start up.

 

Which, when closely followed by your talk of 'bump'-ing the generators, is a bit misleading, no?

 

No, you have to read the little words in between .....these indicated that I have moved on to discuss induction type generators

 

 

Besides.... I dunno about importing stable electricity; I think I prefer the wiggly stuff we have at the moment. The stable stuff tends to come in batteries and I heard that those were bad for the environment. Would this stable electricity be shipped in? Why do we need the tube? Is it because we're so far north that the electricity can't run uphill to us properly?

 

 

High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) is the preferred way of transmitting electricity over long distances - no 'wiggly stuff' there then!

[Ghostrider]

The interconnector, if built, will consist of two circuits - one for importing stable electricity for 'amplification' through these induction generators, the second for exporting dribbles of intermittent electricity south - if it is not all used on Shetland that is.

 

So, when do you deliver the punchline?

 

If you're expecting us to believe your above statement to be true, then would you perhaps be so kind as fill us in on the second half of the story.

 

Last I checked, there were companies out there manufacturing these windmill generators, and apparently doing quite alright out of it, thankyou very much. There were also numerous clusters of them erected in various locations on this planet whirling away.

 

As we are being informed by the worthy?? individuals who comprise Viking Energy, all this hardware doesn't come cheap. So, if we are to believe your assertion that even on top of hills in a very high wind location such as this, the best we can hope for from getting close on to 200 windmills is an occasional "dribble" in excess of local requirements. How on earth are those windmills in lower wind areas ever able to produce anything of worth at all?

 

Maybe some were financed and subsequently written off by public funds managers, as many things are, but not all have been. Shareholders in private business do not tend to hang on to assets that stay in the red, or show no signs of moving appreciably in to the black in the foreseeable future. If your assertion is correct windmills have to come in to those categories, "dribbles" do not pay off the kind of initial investment required for them. Additionally, if your assertion is correct one must conclude that public bodies participating in windmill projects are doing so as part of some big scam, the purpose of which is not immediately clear. Likewise, the private enterprise involved must be being paid off from somewhere to cover their losses and keep quiet about them.

 

Where's the second half of your conspiracy theory? If "dribbles" are all almost 200 windmills are likely to produce beyond local usage, then there's definitely some massive con afoot on an international scale. "Dribbles" don't cover the investment being discussed here, and never will return a profit, so what is this whole "scam" about then? Why are people talking up, and covering up such a dead loss on such a massive scale?

 

I have a great deal of difficulty believing that companies are producing machines that require an input of the same as they ouput, equal to or in excess of their output, unless when operating in the very upper end of their capacity. How in hell do these people sell these things if they are so inefficient?

[Muppet]

I've been reading this debate with an open mind as I still have to be totally convinced that global warming is purely down to human intervention or is part of a natural cycle.

 

I do however realise that we cant burn fossil fuels indefinately, and for that reason alone we need to do something, and do it pretty d**n quick.

 

I've always felt that tidal power should be the most efficient method of energy production because tides are constant and predictable. Even in a Shetland context, when it is slack tide in one location, you can always find a flowing tide a few miles away.

 

Since greenheatman started posting here, I find myself wondering now. This is a man who totally rubbishes existing proven technology and claims to have the answer to the worlds problems. He would have given this away for the price of a boat ticket, but you're too late now guys! You wouldn't listen to me so i've given it away to somebody else!

 

Greenheat man, can I ask you why you should feel we should all take everything you say as gospel, when you could make yourself quite a wealthy man if you sold your knowledge on to as many interestd parties as possible, but instead choose to give it away and give it away to one person only?

 

I could understand if you were not interested in making personal profit but were trying to do your bit to save the planet, but in that case you would be trying to pass your knowledge on to as many people as possible. Can you see why you come across as a little bit implausible?

 

Just read back through this thread and say to yourself, " would I allow myself to be taken in by this guy"

[greenheatman]

The interconnector, if built, will consist of two circuits - one for importing stable electricity for 'amplification' through these induction generators, the second for exporting dribbles of intermittent electricity south - if it is not all used on Shetland that is.

 

So, when do you deliver the punchline?

 

If you're expecting us to believe your above statement to be true, then would you perhaps be so kind as fill us in on the second half of the story.

 

Last I checked, there were companies out there manufacturing these windmill generators, and apparently doing quite alright out of it, thankyou very much. There were also numerous clusters of them erected in various locations on this planet whirling away.

 

As we are being informed by the worthy?? individuals who comprise Viking Energy, all this hardware doesn't come cheap. So, if we are to believe your assertion that even on top of hills in a very high wind location such as this, the best we can hope for from getting close on to 200 windmills is an occasional "dribble" in excess of local requirements. How on earth are those windmills in lower wind areas ever able to produce anything of worth at all?

 

Maybe some were financed and subsequently written off by public funds managers, as many things are, but not all have been. Shareholders in private business do not tend to hang on to assets that stay in the red, or show no signs of moving appreciably in to the black in the foreseeable future. If your assertion is correct windmills have to come in to those categories, "dribbles" do not pay off the kind of initial investment required for them. Additionally, if your assertion is correct one must conclude that public bodies participating in windmill projects are doing so as part of some big scam, the purpose of which is not immediately clear. Likewise, the private enterprise involved must be being paid off from somewhere to cover their losses and keep quiet about them.

 

Where's the second half of your conspiracy theory? If "dribbles" are all almost 200 windmills are likely to produce beyond local usage, then there's definitely some massive con afoot on an international scale. "Dribbles" don't cover the investment being discussed here, and never will return a profit, so what is this whole "scam" about then? Why are people talking up, and covering up such a dead loss on such a massive scale?

 

I have a great deal of difficulty believing that companies are producing machines that require an input of the same as they ouput, equal to or in excess of their output, unless when operating in the very upper end of their capacity.

 

How in hell do these people sell these things if they are so inefficient?

 

Answer ........by stealing electricity off the grid!

 

http://www.greenheating.com/page-7.html

[Evil Inky]

I have a great deal of difficulty believing that companies are producing machines that require an input of the same as they output, equal to or in excess of their output, unless when operating in the very upper end of their capacity.

 

How in hell do these people sell these things if they are so inefficient?

 

Answer ........by stealing electricity off the grid!

 

http://www.greenheating.com/page-7.html

 

Riiight. To be honest, if I'm going to read about a daft conspiracy theory, I'd much rather it involved aliens and a time-travelling Elvis.

[peeriebryan]

So greenheatman, Viking Energy hope to be make £25 million PA by powering some large fans using electricity stolen from the UK mainland

 

Hat's off to them if they can get away with it!