Ghostrider Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 greenheatman, you said: GENTEC venturi uses tidal stream to heat water, to make steam to run steam turbines too ........... You made no mention of how your hot water was used to drive your steam turbines, so neither did I. I simply said: ....your stored hot water is to be used to produce electricity via an unspecified number/dimensions of steam turbines No mention of how there either, simply quoting the extremely limited information given by yourself, viz that the heat from your stored hot water eventually drove steam turbines, the means of doing so, like 90+% of your system, as yet unspecified. Your system most certainly cannot be understood using the written word, if you do not supply even the most basic of information within your written word. I've seen precious few assumptions being made here, dodgy or otherwise. Rather, folks have been trying to piece together the occasional snippets of information concerning your invention lurking here and there in the various passages of rhetoric you have posted, most of which has been severely critical of rival inventions to yours and of people's past opinions of yours, which has no relevance at this stage of the discussion. It is no wonder you are getting no-where fast, a "trust me, mine works and works the best, the alternatives are all useless and everybody is fools and idiots" attitude only annoys and alienates. You could try being open, informative, friendly and concentrate on talking up your product, you might be surprised at the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Ok, I will put in £2, just to speed things up a bit. We'll need a few more contributions. Lets see if we can get the cost of his ticket by Monday. Edit: Hey, £10 ^^^ that's just showing off. Not sure I'm that keen. Let's say £5. What are we up to now? OK £5. But if there is a prototype machine coming, £10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachy Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Hey, no, you can pledge what you like. I just meant I wasn't quite keen enough to follow suit. I'll put in £5, you can stick with £10 if you like (although I'm not convinced there'll be a prototype), plus Fjool and Poolhaddock (come on, you'll put in £5 won't you PoolHaddock? Remember, you cannae spear a byre goat wi half a bannock!) Come on folks, roll up £15 and counting for the greenheatman travel fund... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Yeah, £5 from me. Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I'll chip in a tenner, AND a loan of my kettle for the working demonstration!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachy Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 £30 already. Greenheatman, you'd better get on the phone to NorthLink! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I will go with Crofter on this one £5 for the man, £10 for the man and machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolHaddock Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Absolutely Malachy. We all want this byre goat tae be weel and truly speared! I'll pledge a fiver on the condition I'm in Shetland tae see the demonstration. Would consider a tenner if a machine was involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahorse Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Ostriches, sand! Listen greenheatman,Will you please commit some time to finally explain exactly how your 'thermal battery' works. If, as you say it is somehow possible to convert hot water in your thermal battery into electricity then, you my friend may be the saviour of our planet. If it were, as you claim, an available technology, this could be what the world is looking for. You Sir, will be in line for a Nobel Prize! Think of the possibilities, every industrial operation World Wide that produces hot water as a by product will be able to provide their own electricity, every steel manufacturer, paper mill, oil refinery... The list is endless. They will become self sustaining. Heck, there wont be a need build more power stations. (Can you feel the sarcasm creeping in?) I DON'T THINK SO! Until you explain yourself and your invention I will continue to believe, as I am sure many other Shetlanders do that you are no more than a charlatan and a conman who is wasting our time with your silly ideas. Explain yourself and prove me wrong or stop wasting my time!! Having said that, I do thank you for sparking an interesting debate and forcing me to go in search of knowledge and facts from other website and "peer reviewed papers" which I would otherwise have missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenheatman Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Ostriches, sand! Listen greenheatman,Will you please commit some time to finally explain exactly how your 'thermal battery' works. If, as you say it is somehow possible to convert hot water in your thermal battery into electricity then, you my friend may be the saviour of our planet. If it were, as you claim, an available technology, this could be what the world is looking for. You Sir, will be in line for a Nobel Prize! Think of the possibilities, every industrial operation World Wide that produces hot water as a by product will be able to provide their own electricity, every steel manufacturer, paper mill, oil refinery... The list is endless. They will become self sustaining. Heck, there wont be a need build more power stations. (Can you feel the sarcasm creeping in?) I DON'T THINK SO! Until you explain yourself and your invention I will continue to believe, as I am sure many other Shetlanders do that you are no more than a charlatan and a conman who is wasting our time with your silly ideas. Explain yourself and prove me wrong or stop wasting my time!! Having said that, I do thank you for sparking an interesting debate and forcing me to go in search of knowledge and facts from other website and "peer reviewed papers" which I would otherwise have missed. OK, water at room temperature of 20C contains internal energy called enthalpy of 83.94kJ/kg. A kettle containing 1kg of water at 100C will have an enthalpy of 419.02kJ/kg. The hotter the water gets, the more internal energy it contains so in a thermal store heated to, say, 300C each kg of water will have an enthalpy of 1344kJ. A store with 8000kg of water will have 10.752GJ of internal energy stored under pressure of 105 bar to keep it as water. Now, if you pass cold seawater through a heat exchanger immersed in the thermal store, the seawater's temperature will rise to 300C under pressure and will contain an enthalpy of 1344kJ/kg also. When this water is injected into a device called a flasher/separator at 1 bar the water instantaineously flashes to stream. (The salt drops to the bottom... GENTEC venturi system is also a water desalinator). The superheated steam is then passed to a steam turbine where electricity is produced in the same way that any thermal plant works. The size of the store is crucial and must be big enough to carry spare unused enthalpy forward from the highs of Springs to cover the lows of Neaps. This has been worked out but I will keep close council on that if I may. If the turbines supplying the store 'broke down' then the system could keep on operating for weeks until the repair was made because the system would gradually cool down making the thermal efficiency drop. To counter this the flow rate of steam is increased to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humptygrumpty Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Ive seen Greenheatmans annoying ramblings on other message boards and its always the same unproven drivel backed up with a whole lot o piss all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenheatman Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Ive seen Greenheatmans annoying ramblings on other message boards and its always the same unproven drivel backed up with a whole lot o piss all. Seahorse wrote: greenheatman wrote: Ostriches, sand! Listen greenheatman, Will you please commit some time to finally explain exactly how your 'thermal battery' works. If, as you say it is somehow possible to convert hot water in your thermal battery into electricity then, you my friend may be the saviour of our planet. If it were, as you claim, an available technology, this could be what the world is looking for. You Sir, will be in line for a Nobel Prize! Think of the possibilities, every industrial operation World Wide that produces hot water as a by product will be able to provide their own electricity, every steel manufacturer, paper mill, oil refinery... The list is endless. They will become self sustaining. Heck, there wont be a need build more power stations. (Can you feel the sarcasm creeping in?) I DON'T THINK SO! Until you explain yourself and your invention I will continue to believe, as I am sure many other Shetlanders do that you are no more than a charlatan and a conman who is wasting our time with your silly ideas. Explain yourself and prove me wrong or stop wasting my time!! Having said that, I do thank you for sparking an interesting debate and forcing me to go in search of knowledge and facts from other website and "peer reviewed papers" which I would otherwise have missed. OK, water at room temperature of 20C contains internal energy called enthalpy of 83.94kJ/kg. A kettle containing 1kg of water at 100C will have an enthalpy of 419.02kJ/kg. The hotter the water gets, the more internal energy it contains so in a thermal store heated to, say, 300C each kg of water will have an enthalpy of 1344kJ. A store with 8000kg of water will have 10.752GJ of internal energy stored under pressure of 105 bar to keep it as water. Now, if you pass cold seawater through a heat exchanger immersed in the thermal store, the seawater's temperature will rise to 300C under pressure and will contain an enthalpy of 1344kJ/kg also. When this water is injected into a device called a flasher/separator at 1 bar the water instantaineously flashes to stream. (The salt drops to the bottom... GENTEC venturi system is also a water desalinator). The superheated steam is then passed to a steam turbine where electricity is produced in the same way that any thermal plant works. The size of the store is crucial and must be big enough to carry spare unused enthalpy forward from the highs of Springs to cover the lows of Neaps. This has been worked out but I will keep close council on that if I may. If the turbines supplying the store 'broke down' then the system could keep on operating for weeks until the repair was made because the system would gradually cool down making the thermal efficiency drop. To counter this the flow rate of steam is increased to compensate. (** Mod edit - removed large area of blank space and irrelevant text from quote**) (** To all posters: please try to avoid bogging the thread down by using up screen space with overly long quotes and repeating whole posts made earlier in the thread - and lets try to keep the thread on topic and moving forward**) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Have any of these things been made and tested in full scale at any serious length of time? I have to say that the thermal battery sounds pretty scary. There's superheated water stored under high pressure in large containers, which are going to need all sorts of fittings and access hatches in the sides/bottom to allow the cold saltwater to enter the heat exchanger, the salt to be removed and cables for the immersion heaters. The salt will need removed regularily and the heatexchangers will need cleaned. With all those potential weaknesses in the battery, I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near the things. And there would have to be a lot of them for serious power generation. The PURE project has a better method of storing electricity for future usages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenheatman Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Have any of these things been made and tested in full scale at any serious length of time? I have to say that the thermal battery sounds pretty scary. There's superheated water stored under high pressure in large containers, which are going to need all sorts of fittings and access hatches in the sides/bottom to allow the cold saltwater to enter the heat exchanger, the salt to be removed and cables for the immersion heaters. The salt will need removed regularily and the heatexchangers will need cleaned. With all those potential weaknesses in the battery, I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near the things. And there would have to be a lot of them for serious power generation. The PURE project has a better method of storing electricity for future usages Thermal Accumulators are pretty old hat and well established technology, just search for "thermal accumulators" on google and you will get over a 800 hits Thermal storage has a pretty bad Press because when you pay hard cash for coal to heat water you do not want to see it leach away through the insulation before you get to use it. Modern composite materials will not let any thermal energy leak out - the only way the heat gets out is through the heat exchanger. The thermal store does not have any hatches.. it has one pipe going in and one pipe coming out plus a safety valve. There is nothing scary about it - it is known thermodynamics. The lower the operating temperature the more desalinated water is produced per MWh of electricity generated.[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Inky Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I will go with Crofter on this one £5 for the man, £10 for the man and machine. Another £5-10 pledged from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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