Terrorist Attack at Glasgow Airport

[Para Handy]

Maybe a good dose of the Ebola viruses is what’s needed here. We could slip it to them the next time they are al at Mecca. They would be sitting on the bog so often that there would be no time to blow other people up

[Gibber]

er...?

[Seaflech]

Maybe a good dose of the Ebola viruses is what’s needed here. We could slip it to them the next time they are al at Mecca. They would be sitting on the bog so often that there would be no time to blow other people up

 

OK I'll rise to the bait here and assume this is a serious post.

PH how is an attitude like that any different to these extremists who say 'Maybe a good dose of explosives is what's needed here. We could slip it to them next time they're all in a nightclub.....' etc etc.

 

It is ignorance like that that is banging the drum and encouraging hatred around the world

[Malachy]

Just picking up on a point made earlier

In Iraq the majority of violence is Sunnies killing Shiites and vice-versa (in the name of the "real" Islam?)

In fact this is not true - it is simply that the media has chosen to focus on this. A recent study in Iraq showed that 75% of violence was still being aimed at the occupying forces.

[Gibber]

Just picking up on a point made earlier

junior wrote:

 

In Iraq the majority of violence is Sunnies killing Shiites and vice-versa (in the name of the "real" Islam?)

 

In fact this is not true - it is simply that the media has chosen to focus on this. A recent study in Iraq showed that 75% of violence was still being aimed at the occupying forces.

 

Phew that's a relief!

 

That pesky media was trying to convince me that inter-islamic violence was the main focus.

 

Oh media! Why do you mock me? WHY?

[Malachy]

I think you rather miss the point, which is that violence in Iraq is overwhelmingly perpetrated against an unpopular foreign occupying force. The focus on Sunni vs Shiia attacks is used by some to suggest or simply hint that Muslims are inherently violent people ("see, they just kill each other anyway!") Which is, of course, not true.

[junior]

A recent study in Iraq showed that 75% of violence was still being aimed at the occupying forces.

 

Yes I was surprised to hear that. Perhaps it's down to the meeting I linked to earlier, or maybe the AQ cru are asserting some influence...

 

Either way Iraqis are better off now than they were under Saddam, yet it is now that Muslims decide to protest against "oppression"?

 

When was the last time any Muslim protested against the oppression of their brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia or Iran because of the apostasy laws?

 

I found an interesting Islamic definition of oppression the other day that might explain this. It basically said that any Muslims under non-Muslim control ("dar al-harb") were defined as "oppressed". I couldn't find it again but the article below (from an Australia based apostate) does almost as good a job.

 

http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/IslamOppressed.htm

[junior]

The focus on Sunni vs Shiia attacks is used by some to suggest or simply hint that Muslims are inherently violent people ("see, they just kill each other anyway!") Which is, of course, not true.

 

Perhaps, but the Sunni/Shiite conflict (including umpteen wars) has been going on almost as long as Islam has existed, it isn't completely made up (I can find proof if you don't believe me). Are Muslim inherently violent? No, I agree, but the religion of Islam itself...

 

How many 2nd generation British Muslims, when confronted by a Sheikh Osama, or an Anjum Choudry, telling them that if they were real Muslims they would be prepared to go to Afghanistan and fight with the Taliban, would be able to put up a convincing Islamic argument to the contrary? The original/authentic/fundamental/literal Islam seems to me, with an admittedly limited knowledge, to be extremely violent, but as importantly, supremacist as well.

[Gibber]

"The focus on Sunni vs Shiia attacks is used by some to suggest or simply hint that Muslims are inherently violent people ("see, they just kill each other anyway!") Which is, of course, not true."

 

This Sonny vs Cher conflict has been going on since 1974.

 

Didn't know they were Muslims though.

[DeMascus]

Either way Iraqis are better off now than they were under Saddam,

 

Are you joking?

[Njugle]

Hi all. Technically, with how this debate has progressed, we probably should (have) merge(d) this thread with an older relevant one, but given the activity in here i'll leave it be for noo, perhaps until it quietens down, perhaps altogether, and give you older links to:

 

1)Muslims
2)Israel vs Middle eastern states

 

For your interest.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Either way Iraqis are better off now than they were under Saddam

 

Many Iraqis think conditions have gotten so bad in their country, they'd like to see Saddam Hussein back in power, according to some of the seven young Iraqi men who had a candid discussion with The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith.

"A lot of people want, well, 'We just want Saddam come back. We don't want to live this life. OK, dictator? We don't care; doesn't matter anymore. We just want Saddam get back. We just want our life to get back to before."

"When the Americans started this whole war issue," said one, who will be referred to as person No. 1, "we started to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and we walked toward it. But when the war happened, that light was the American train coming the other way that ran us over."

He told of a recent day when he "saw a body on the sidewalk, and it was covered with cardboard, and people were still in their shops, saying hello to each other and inviting each other for tea, and I asked about him, and they said, 'He got killed this morning.' 'Oh, OK, yeah, see ya later.' "

"They are killing people for what they say, just like Saddam," said a young man who will be referred to as person No. 2. "They kill people because the people say, 'I don't like (this one or that one).' You get killed for that.

"They're using horrible ways to kill people. They're not just shooting them in the head. They suffocate them, strangle them, burn them. Horrible things, things we heard about only during Saddam's days are coming back now. It's an effort to terrorize people, not just to eliminate your enemy, but to force everyone to shut up and stay home."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/24/earlyshow/main1649689.shtml

Hmmm.

[junior]

Njugle, I am still trying to convince people that grievances over foreign policy are not the main reason we are threatened by terrorist attacks. Admittedly I seem to be failing.

 

Ahh well, plough on....

 

With regards the defence of Saddams regime, I think a bit of anti-americanism, or anti-britishness is healthy, but this is surely taking the piss? "Hmm" +1.

 

Saddam killed whole towns of innocent people with chemical weapons, when that happens again I will be willing to accept that "things we heard about only during Saddam's days are coming back now". Did you see the pictures on BBC 2 last night? There were more than a few corpses in the streets.

 

Who are the people killing and being killed in those comments KOYAANISQATSI? Not coalition forces.

 

Iraqis at least now have half a chance of building a better country for themselves, a chance they never had under Saddam. A chance that would be a hell of a lot greater if we had more accurately directed our "war on terror".

 

In the link below a certain despicable disgrace for a human being I have previously mentioned states that his in an "ideological and political war". He, along with Omar Bakri (who was asked to leave the country after the 7/7 bombing) were the leaders of al muhajiroun. A group who according to wiki "became notorious for its conference "The Magnificent 19", praising the September 11, 2001 attacks".

 

 

He fairly infamously gave an Islamic definition of innocence on Newsnight which bears a striking similarity to the definition of oppression I linked to previously (Muslim=innocent, non-Muslim=guilty).

[Twerto]

could the key phrase out of what Njugle quoted be

 

according to some of the seven young Iraqi men who had a candid discussion with The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith.

 

not having a clue about how young these are.. but i expect late teens early 20s.. people who didn't actually have to work and support themselves for long under the sadam regime?

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Saddam killed whole towns of innocent people with chemical weapons

And where did he get such wonderful toys?

According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States, West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China.[1] By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

 

Of course ol rummy had to have his nose in too

http://www.iht.com/articles/2002/11/29/edjoost_ed3_.php#

Who are the people killing and being killed in those comments KOYAANISQATSI? Not coalition forces

Yes, I'm sure all the killing is very democratic these days, but dont count out good old uncle sam in the blood, sex and death leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKI4qtNcFh8&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeZsOv75BU