Death Penalty

[Lola Boomboom]

well let me say this in Iran a child murderer was convicted and sentenced to death. The families of all the children he had raped and murdered all got to take part in the execution first his hands and feet were chopped off, he was castrated, stabbed and beaten then hoisted slowly into the air on a crane by his neck. No one watching this execution would be in any doubt what fate would await them if they were to commit the same vile offences.

 

hmmm, don't have to crane my neck to see the brutality and abuse of this justice system!

I saw a program where this was also done to two men accused of homosexuality and a girl of 16 accused of infidelity.

[sheepshagger]

And there we have an example of Islam and its intolerance Lola, this punishment is perfectly OK for homosexuality and infidelity according to the profit Mohamed I just think it is OK for pedophiles and murderers and as I have already said a lot better than the pish we have in this country.

[Njugle]

To the extremist, SS, drink/drug driving should be punished by death, as it can be portrayed as attempted murder.

 

That would make the roads pretty quiet on saturday mornings eh?

[JAStewart]

I wonder JA would you feel the same if it was a member of your family that was raped and murdered, would you be so keen to let them have counceling then, I doubt it you got a bit heated when I brought up Andrews distance from shore while transiting Africa.

It is easy to be liberal when it does not affect you directly

By your reasoning JA a soldier is a murderer even in defence of his homeland

 

Point to where I said that they should receive councelling?

[DePooperit]

IMO, a question like 'should we introduce the death penalty' is the sort of simplistic question which can only lead to opinionated people head-butting like two rams in a park. It doesn't even begin to look at the issues.

 

The problem lies in the system - an evil and incompatible combination of leftist/liberal ideology and Thatcherite bureaucracy. In a case like the recent child murder, you get a situation where many neighbours had reported what was going on for ages, but the injuries were missed because of talcum powder! And even the police described the social work efforts as 'good'. This is further complicated by the fact that you can't believe anything that's reported in the news.

 

Whatever, there is no doubt that not only the justice system, but society as a whole, is increasingly stifled by this combination of ideology and bureaucracy. I used to work in a hospital where there was a chain of command from lowly nursing assistants such as myself to the matron at the top. Under Thatcherism, a new system was introduced which undervalued actual nursing and emphasised pen-pushing, box-shifting and bean counting. Managers were brought in who knew nothing about nursing. Cleaning was farmed out to private companies who were then anwerable, not to the nursing staff, but to the aforesaid managers, whose main priority was to cut costs. Nursing students didn't even have to work on their training - they could just observe, and some of them freely admitted that they were in nursing as a route to management. Increasingly, the trained staff sat in an office doing paperwork and the actual work was done by untrained and even temporary staff.

 

Successive governments have tried to remedy the effects of this by throwing money at it and setting targets. What it needs is a complete re-vamp of the whole system from the bottom up. I've no doubt that the justice system and social work are in a similar state. The problems are systemic, and can only be remedied by tackling the system. But postmodern thought is opposed to thinking in terms of systems, and this leaves a gap which only stifling bureaucracy can fill.

 

This system victimises victims more often than not. But almost as worrying is the fact that it gives credence to vituperative opinions like Sheepshagger's, which easily merge into extreme right-wing views. I've posted in another thread some of my problems with living in a listed building. I know of someone else who solved this problem by getting some friends together and hanging the guy who wouldn't pay upside down down a stairwell until he agreed. The law is such an ass, and the services worse, that increasingly your only hope is to be able to hurt the other guy more than he can hurt you. The hostel was a good education after all, then.

 

I once had a window broken by a boy with a snowball. The police caught him easily, and the parents continued to promise to pay, but never did, until the police decided not to pursue the matter further. The boy had learned a valuable lesson in how to avoid consequences. My wife, who is a teacher, says that kids nowadays have no concept of bad behaviour having consequences, and there are layers of bureaucracy within the education system which makes sure that they don't.

 

We are now seeing community vigilantes who beat up criminals because they know that the police either can't or won't prosecute them. When you lose faith in the system, and get desperate, what else do you do? Lynchings next, maybe. Shariah law may be just one aspect of a general trend in society as a whole. I see a day coming when the Sheepshaggers of this world will have their way.

[Styles]

Im more for murders to be used for human experimentation, as there must be many break throughs that could be speeded up if human guniea pigs could be used. Thus they could benefit all mankind.

[Gibber]

To the extremist, SS, drink/drug driving should be punished by death, as it can be portrayed as attempted murder.

 

That would make the roads pretty quiet on saturday mornings eh?

 

This is clutching at straws isn't it? Execution for still being over the bag the night after a sesh really isn't the kind of thing Sheepshagger is talking about.

 

If you could reason why execution is extreme for the crimes he has already mentioned or argue the case for rehabilitation in prison then you might be able to call Sheepshagger an over-emotional extremist.

[JAStewart]

I wonder JA would you feel the same if it was a member of your family that was raped and murdered, would you be so keen to let them have counceling then

 

But thats what spawns outrageous thoughts like re-introducing the death penalty, your argument is irrational because you want them dead out of spite rather than logically thinking about it.

[Gibber]

You're trying to deter people from killing others by killing someone who has killed another person. It doesn't work. It's a paradox. It makes no sense etc.

 

So you wouldn't be in favor of imprisonment for someone found guilty of kidnapping because you think its a paradox? arf!

[sheepshagger]

JA wrote

 

Point to where I said that they should receive counseling?

 

when I opened a new topic there was a choice in the vote for counseling, there were only 3 votes cast before fjool closed it down one for hanging and one for hanging and frying and one for counseling the wife didn't get a chance to vote for peeling and salting, as you were the only one to reply to the post and the vote was cast at same time as your reply I assumed it was you, I apologise if my assumption was incorect but be assured you won't be hung on an assumption

[sheepshagger]

JA wrote

 

But that's what spawns outrageous thoughts like re-introducing the death penalty, your argument is irrational because you want them dead out of spite rather than logically thinking about it.

 

No Jamie boy I have thought about this very rationally

I want them dead because they have taken an innocent life.

I want them dead so they can never again commit their crimes.

I want them dead because too often some idiot social worker declares them all rehabilitated and they are let out to do it again.

I want them dead because prison in the UK is hardly punishment for the average scumbag, some of them enjoy it. the conditions in jail are better than a lot of rigs I've worked on

I want them dead because why the hell should I pay tax to keep the sausage alive.

 

those two scumbags who killed the peerie boy on the rail track are free and a lot richer for their crime, instead of releasing them at 21 I would of hung them at 21 they knew damn fine what they were doing was wrong they even tried to cover up their crime by leaving the peerie soul on the rail track for a train to obliterate the evidence.

What does this government do it releases them gives them new IDs a house and an income to help them restart their lives.

Now that is outrageous

 

how much money has it cost the taxpayer to look at Myra Hindley's case over and over again. she took the lives of children yet we have allowed her to have relationships with other prisoners she has experienced happiness while her victims have experienced only torture and death since she got her hands on them, she won't even tell the family of that young boy where they buried his body, She even tried to use this information as a bargaining chip in her attempt to be released not only does she continue to draw breath but she still tortures the family of her victims. and some bleeding hearts want her set free.

Now that is outrageous

[Gibber]

^^She's dead now though.

 

But thats what spawns outrageous thoughts like re-introducing the death penalty, your argument is irrational because you want them dead out of spite rather than logically thinking about it.

 

What is wrong with execution as revenge? (spite isn't the right word)

 

It may fill an important psychological need of the relatives of some murder victims. This need cannot be addressed under UK law and has to be dealt with through alternative means such as therapy.

[Styles]

^^^ It seems to me like natural justice

[Gibber]

^^ No, I don't mean Karma or an eye for an eye, natural justice or any kind of contrived concept like that.

 

There is a practical need sometimes for revenge, why should bleeding heart cries of barbarity or inhumanity get in the way of that?

[Fjool]

Does revenge serve a purpose? Is it morally acceptable to seek revenge?

 

Romans 12:19 "Revenge is mine; I will repay", saith the Lord.

 

(Not arguing a corner here, just raising the questions)