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2008 - Shetland Fitba


Bogle
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If you want to increase participation by creating new teams only to have the same people playing more games for two clubs then fine, that wont solve the problem though, you'll still have clubs crying out for players and good clubs with more players than they can shake a stick at. A combination of a limit of players in a squad and one player one club will increase the numbers playing and give you the personnel to form the new clubs, giving players the opportunity to "find their level", whilst also giving you the new teams needed to make your idea work. Im sure if you look back through this forum in the previous football topics and put parts from everybody's suggestions together then you would have a framework for change.

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The only problem for teams at the top end of the A League seems to be they want to have enough teams in the league. The Works League don't seem to want to change their set-up, so how about this.....

 

Scrap the B League, and have 4 independent Leagues. Premier, Northern, Southern, and Works.

 

Southern League can be the 4 traditional teams and Scalloway, with the understanding they don't use A players, as they have the biggest catchment area.

Northern League can have Whitedale, Delting, and Whalsay - all reserve sides. with traditional B league sides Unst and Yell.

Premier League should be the other 8, plus an extra town team, because they play for Royals/Rangers/whatever or play works league. I would also strongly suggest that another team from the Delting area could be fielded (if they didn't have a reserve team).

Works League can soak up any extra players left without a team when B league is scrapped.

 

Or alternatively, just find an extra team from Lerwick, revert to the previous set-up, and we're back to how it was in the early nineties when everything seemed to be ok.

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I said the Delting area should field 2 teams in the A league. I do believe that, but would like to offer my opinion on the actual Delting team.

The reason that Delting are the dominant side is not down to talented footballers, from the same area, being born at the same time. Maybe the catchment area helps, but mainly it's because they are the most organised side. The whole set-up is far superior to any other side in Shetland. It's been the same with every dominant team in Shetland football history. If other teams would get their own house in order, they WILL be able to compete. Attidude and commitment count for alot. As does good coaching, management, and even recruitment. The good sides I remember all had players in their team - who also represented the county - who weren't from the local area. In fact they were all from the Ness :oops: Everyone of these players moved because they knew that they could be develop more at such a well run side.

 

So maybe the only way to make the league more competitive is for people to run their club better.

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fine in principal but there would be no end of bickering between Ness United and Southend united, Cunningsburgh, and Sandwick, over which player plays where, Ness will want first pick on the players because they came through their junior ranks and the other three will want the best players that come from their area, eg why is du playing for Ness when you should be playing for wis, just a recipe for disaster.

 

You could say that Ness gets the first pick when they come out of the under 18's but you'll find as free agents they will go where they want not the clubs, if Ness are getting pumped in the premier league they will go to their "local area" club in the southern section especially if that club is doing well.

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They would be seperate leagues so they could play for both. The SL teams and Northern League would in effect be reserve teams. I do think that without a B league all other teams would be viable.

 

I didn't want to turn this into another Ness/SL thread. In fact i'll make a more relevant one. I'm just suggesting alternative set-ups that may have benefits for Shetland wide football.

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The Southern League thread relates closely to this one but I cannot comment as the only knowledge I have on the subject is what has been written on Shetlink. I would only say that the southend of shetland should be represented "in some way" under the SFA, A's or B's.

 

17-0, 15-0, 10-0 is not the way forward for the clubs involved or shetland football but most agree we want a strong and competitive top division. It is important for everyone to look at the season past and form some conclusions. Here are some of mine.

 

Unst - showed they can more than compete but toiled badly when missing Junior County players and key players getting injured. Do not have the squad to play in the top division unless students are home. May struggle to fulfill fixtures next season.

 

Yell - Took a few beatings but managed a few good displays. Relying on two or three players which if missing causes them to take heavy defeats. Have a bigger squad than some but most of their players are more suited to a B' standard.

 

Delting - Run away champs again but most teams beleive they have a chance when they are not at full strength. May not be the force they currently are in long term. Need two teams to satisfy there squad..

 

Whalsay - Excellent young team who in time may put it together to challenge for the title. Have vast numbers of players and need two teams to satisfy the squad.

 

Whitedale - Everyone knew they should never have been in the B league last season and will now go on to be a strong team in the top division. Lack strength in depth to challenge but have good young players to come. Also seem to need two sides to satisfy players.

 

Scalloway - Strong and seem to have good numbers for one team. Seem to need two sides so everyone at the club can get a game.

 

Burra - Struggled badly and need to be in the B League standard and build for the future. They admirably tried to fulfill fixtures but they clearly struggled to do so. Should be encouraged to build, team for the future.

 

Ness - I'm not aware of the issues which seem to complicate them. Seem to have good numbers, especially if those from the area played for them and not transfer for personal gain. Excellent junior players and should be a major force in the future.

 

Spurs - Struggling to live up to past successes and without James Johnston look in real trouble. Club has been struggling at youth level and the evidence could be seen this season.

 

Thistle - Surprised many with some good results and the older players who did not give up on them must be commended. The days of dominating shetland football may be gone but the club still seems to be working.

 

Celtic - struggled early on due to students being away but have good numbers for two sides. Can only look to improve and challenge with the talented squad they have when available.

 

People associated with these clubs may think my conclusions are pants but I can only form a decision on what I see and hear. My overall conclusion is that the Clubs who have the resources to feild A's and B's are in a very strong position for the future. Unst, Yell, Thistle, Burra and perhaps Ness need to decide how they hope to improve for the future and the SFA needs to support them.

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I agree that it's those teams who are struggling that need to be listened to. If the SFA doesn't support them, then they won't be able to improve the overall standard. Forcing Burra to play in the A league is ridiculous. The only thing that will happen, is they may decide to join the works league. As the SFA is representative of every club, really it's up to the big clubs to support the rest in any ideas they may have. The main issue for the big clubs is they want to have enough games. But there needs to be some compromise from them. People need to realise that just because a team has no B after their name, it doesn't mean they are A league standard. With the current set-up the only way I can see it being run, is to pick a realistic number of teams for the A league. Then at the end of the season if the bottom team is toiling badly, they can have the option to drop down or not. If they choose to drop down, the highest place non-reserve side can be told they must move up for the next season. If the bottom club doesn't want to drop down, and a team chooses to join the A league, it's expanded. But the 'magic' number must be remembered, and the bottom 2 would be offered the chance to drop down at the end of the season.

 

 

On a seperate issue V&J, I don't think 1 player from the Ness playing for another team really makes much difference to their numbers.

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Hi i again, just passing by and i thought i'd drop in and say hello..

 

There are clearly some good points here.

 

some suggestions i'd make would be to -

 

scrap all playing bans such as the junior and senior counties. If players get injured they get injured, tough. let it be more like the proffessional game.

 

Start the season a few weeks later to allow students to return, this would benefit everyone in the long run and wouldn't leaves teams strugglin without their students for 3-5 weeks early on. This would have to be in conjunction with the point above though.

 

Could some teams not show common sense, 17-0, i mean come on that is hellish :shock: :x :cry: :oops: :evil: . Especially since deltin had already won the league, should this not have been the place to blood in the young boys. They should be embarressed.

 

All the same I must congratulate, Unst, Yell (yes i know, it doesn't happen often), Burra and Ness for fighting above their weight and competing bravely. They deserve more respect than they will get for it.

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scrap all playing bans such as the junior and senior counties. If players get injured they get injured, tough. let it be more like the proffessional game.

 

Start the season a few weeks later to allow students to return, this would benefit everyone in the long run and wouldn't leaves teams strugglin without their students for 3-5 weeks early on. This would have to be in conjunction with the point above though.

 

Could some teams not show common sense, 17-0, i mean come on that is hellish :shock: :x :cry: :oops: :evil: . Especially since deltin had already won the league, should this not have been the place to blood in the young boys. They should be embarressed.

 

All the same I must congratulate, Unst, Yell (yes i know, it doesn't happen often), Burra and Ness for fighting above their weight and competing bravely. They deserve more respect than they will get for it.

 

Just a peerie reply:

 

I can agree with "playing bans " to a point but consider this situation. A young boy, picked for the junior county and perhaps really a player who could have swung the game in Shetland's favour, is injured badly playing senior football two weeksish before the county game. Shetland lose the football fixture but also, buy a small margin, the Stuart Cup.

 

Now these players only get a few years, at most, to achieve junior squad status - very many in fact only get one crack at it. To be robbed of that for what, filling boots to make-up a team? I know some will say, well if your good enough your old enough. That is 100% correct but all they would be asked to do is miss, say two weeks senior football, maybe three games!

 

A just to clarify the above scenario did happen and the junio0r manager did not have a strict ban in place - i'l bet he wishes he had. I would certainly have supported him.

 

On to your playing season point. Simply, the season is short enough and to delay three-four weeks so students can get home is just silly. Better that more of our students got themselves involved in playing a better standard of football whilst away so they are fitter to play when they get back.

 

Common sense, well you have a very good point there. However, I don't hold out much hope there and perhaps it is just the competative nature of the game. Players want to play, players want to score, that's football.

The flip side is that I have watched games this season where, you have to name names for effect here but forgive me, teams have had several substitues on the touchline, young and old, the teams on the park are romping away with the points/tie and no changes made until it is to late for the sub to even dirty his shorts. I've seen Delting do it, Whalsay do it, Celtic do it and in the case of Whalsay, twice, with bloody COUNTY players on the park. Silly but true.

 

And finally, yes, well done Unst, Yell and Ness United (are they yet?) for getting on with it and flourishing. To Whitedale, well they should never have even asked to play only "B" football and have now seen sense. Burra, well good luck to the players but they will not survive at this level and along with Scalloway, for the good of the whole catchment area (Burra, Trondra, Scalloway, East Voe, Tingwall) need to get together, sort it out, change the names/s, alternate home ground between A and B, support the youth underbelly that has been developing nicely and grow up.

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Common sense, well you have a very good point there. However, I don't hold out much hope there and perhaps it is just the competative nature of the game. Players want to play, players want to score, that's football.

The flip side is that I have watched games this season where, you have to name names for effect here but forgive me, teams have had several substitues on the touchline, young and old, the teams on the park are romping away with the points/tie and no changes made until it is to late for the sub to even dirty his shorts. I've seen Delting do it, Whalsay do it, Celtic do it and in the case of Whalsay, twice, with bloody COUNTY players on the park. Silly but true.

 

 

As you stated wheesht, players want to play and score and when presented with numerous chances it would be very hard to not take them especially with the goal at your mercy.

 

As a Whalsay rep on this forum i would apologise for the 2 instances that Wheesht has pointed out if the opposition felt we've taken advantage of them and continued hammering in goals for fun and generally taken the p**s!

 

(In our defence i'm struggling to think who the opposition was as i don't think we've hit double figures against anyone this year.)

 

But what makes you feel worse (a) getting hammered 15-0 or (B) getting hammered 10-0 but then have the opposition "play around" by passing around you, getting to the goal line and deliberately missing etc etc.

 

I don't think too much blame can be attached to the big clubs for running up the score if the chances are presented, you can only make 3 subs and if 3 non-county players are injured and want to come off then thats what happens.

 

Your subs that you may be using will probably still be better than their opposite numbers and these subs will have a point to prove so the obsessive goal scoring may not neccesarily stop!

 

In the case of Delting, their squad is packed full of County players and they could be subbing county players for county players!

 

I'm not condoning 17 or 15 goal victories but what are you supposed to do against vastly inferior opposition who may not even have 11 players on the pitch?

 

Abandon at HT and play a 2nd half friendly, mixing the teams?

 

It's hopefully not going to be too much of a problem next year, however in the unlikely event of a status quo maybe we should take a leaf out of the amateur boxing set-up, don't they stop a fight if one guy gets 20 points ahead of the other?

 

10 goals up = game over!!

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I might be making a ridiculous point and one which obviously is so stupid nobody seems to have mentioned it but have any of the teams on the recieving end of a 15-0 tried to do anything about it? Teams who are knocked out in the early rounds of competitions ever though of using their free nights to perhaps go through a few defensive drills? Or ask the manager to give them a solid system of play to stick to and work at? Perhaps even indulge in some much needed fitness work before and maybe even during the season.

 

I'm probably way off here. I suppose it would be much easier for the better players to sacrafice their 90minutes of football every week and spend most of the season on the bench. I mean why should they get to play through the whole season?! They've probably spent all winter running about, keeping fit and working with a football. I mean, they're probably bored with it. People like Stuart Hay, Karl Williamson, James Johnson and Ross Jamieson should hold their heads in shame at running past someone who has spent the previous night in the pub before rattling another goal past a goalkeeper who's probably wearing marigolds!!!

 

GET A GRIP PEOPLE!!! The cry baby culture can't go on forever or we'll be restructuring the league forever.

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You're half right in what you say plaguestorm.

 

When I started playing for Ness we had a decent manager who tried to play a system to stop us getting such big defeats. I remember when we played the best sides he gave me and the other striker specific instructions. He told us that we must man-mark the full-backs, to limit their strikers supply. This was an alien concept to me, but it was bloody effective. We were able to keep the score to single figures, even when we weren't at full strength.

 

What you're missing here, is that we were an established A league club. Even though most of the players had only between 1-3 years experience, we all wanted to be playing football at that level. A team like Burra have been forced to join the A league, when B league football was the correct level for them. And yes, they have been forced to. Joining the works league, playing at a lower standard, and playing every match away from home, doesn't really count as a choice in my book. While people on here have rightly been praising the bottom clubs for their achievements this season, you have gone down the selfish and narrow-minded road of labelling them cry babies. This is exactly the football culture in Shetland that exists, with no common sense, and no give and take.

 

I can only assume you are from one of the top 6 sides in Shetland. So here's a restructuring plan for you. The top teams can continue to show the same attitude, and form their own 6 team SUPER league :roll:

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I can only assume you are from one of the top 6 sides in Shetland. So here's a restructuring plan for you. The top teams can continue to show the same attitude, and form their own 6 team SUPER league :roll:

 

this would be interestin yes, but for the benefit o shetland fitba it would be a total step in the rong direction. Should clubs not agree a loan system in which younger players ( and B players) not good enough/ old enough to play for say deltin A or whalsa A be allowed to g on loan for a season or even say up until the middle of the season say the 1 august. This would boost other teams depth and generally improve the league.

 

Players couldn't be forced into it I know but some players who cant get a game for the big guns would start for others. There should be an optional agreement

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A team like Burra have been forced to join the A league, when B league football was the correct level for them. And yes, they have been forced to. Joining the works league, playing at a lower standard, and playing every match away from home, doesn't really count as a choice in my book.

 

I think you are seeing that point without ALL the facts.

 

The SFA (and remember that the SFA, as has been stated on here by many from all sides ARE the clubs with a very few others tagged on) at the time felt that the balance of "A" and "B" football was way out of tilt and showed no signs of any natural rebalance, infact others were making open grumbles about only fielding a team in the "B" league.

 

In my opinion, and I have no vote or say in this, that would have seen Shetland football slip further down the hill.

 

The descsion was taken to change rules, I don't know perhaps constitutions, to have one league for all "clubs" first teams and a reserve league for those clubs running two teams.

 

There could never be a workable rule where Ness United, Whitedale or any of the isles teams were forced to play in the top league where you also had another single team club plodding along in the "B" league.

 

It appears that it is just Burra most people are holding up as the club who have been wronged in a great way. That is wrong.

 

I comes back to what every club have to have to succeed, commitment from a committe, players, managers and most of all (in country areas like mine) a sustainable community club with a source of young players feeding it. Burraway or Oxna United would have that.

 

Otherwise they will only be a flash in the pan like Puma's, Royals, Hearts, Dons etc.

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