Bogle Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Would there be much wrong with this?: "A" league of 8 teams (play each other twice)DeltingWhalsayCelticWhitedaleScallowayThistleSpursNess Madrid Cup - League Cup format for A league teams (2 groups of 4) Manson Cup - Straight K.O cup for A league teams + independent B league teams Fraser Cup as above Manson with the added twist of playing it during the fortnight where the County break/highland tour or island games occur. This could serve 2 purposes (1) give the county players time out with their set-up whilst the "mere mortals" can continue to play. I've always thought that the season is too short for a break anyway. (2) Gives the "lesser" teams a realistic chance of winning something. (I wouldn't want to "devalue" any cup and i'm only using the Fraser Cup as an example because i know it exists and therefore i can put a name to the competition!) County Shield as-is, open to everyone straight K.O. "B" League of 10/11 teams (Play each other twice)All the above B's UnstYellBurra? Bloomfield Cup open to B's only and straight K.O Another Cup for B's too? Works league (left alone) I know it's a step back possibly to the late 90's/ early 00's but was there much wrong with that set-up? The Works league doesn't want to play at the big table as they like what they've got but on the plus side there looks to be 8 strong(ish) squads that can put out A and B's. Unst and Yell look like they may struggle to compete at all times next year so why not let them drop down but play in the A Cups when the students are home and their squads can cope and compete better and if and when they feel that they want to step back up a division in the future - even better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenlink Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Bogle,I believe that format was proposed last year and the office bearers saw fit to throw it out without even opening it up for consideration. Will it be any different this year??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoichkov Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 U just end up with the problem with the problem of a team like Ness United saying 'Why can Unst and Yell play in the B's and we have to play in the A's?' Afterall haven't Unst finished higher up the league than Ness this year? I still think a reserve league should be for reserve teams. Unst and Yell i think can compete in the top league, they've shown that this year. If there was some kind of loan system on the go then maybe they could get players to boost their squads while students were away. Burra are the only side out o their depth. They should try and rejoin the southern league, enter a side in the works league or just play for Scalloway A and B. Its my understanding that there are only 3 or 4 Burramen that actually play for them. They have players fae da ness, toon, north and whalsay, and can still only come up wi 9 men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheesht Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Would there be much wrong with this?: "A" league of 8 teams (play each other twice)DeltingWhalsayCelticWhitedaleScallowayThistleSpursNess Madrid Cup - League Cup format for A league teams (2 groups of 4) Manson Cup - Straight K.O cup for A league teams + independent B league teams Fraser Cup as above Manson with the added twist of playing it during the fortnight where the County break/highland tour or island games occur. This could serve 2 purposes (1) give the county players time out with their set-up whilst the "mere mortals" can continue to play. I've always thought that the season is too short for a break anyway. (2) Gives the "lesser" teams a realistic chance of winning something. (I wouldn't want to "devalue" any cup and i'm only using the Fraser Cup as an example because i know it exists and therefore i can put a name to the competition!) County Shield as-is, open to everyone straight K.O. "B" League of 10/11 teams (Play each other twice)All the above B's UnstYellBurra? Bloomfield Cup open to B's only and straight K.O Another Cup for B's too? Works league (left alone) I know it's a step back possibly to the late 90's/ early 00's but was there much wrong with that set-up? The Works league doesn't want to play at the big table as they like what they've got but on the plus side there looks to be 8 strong(ish) squads that can put out A and B's. Unst and Yell look like they may struggle to compete at all times next year so why not let them drop down but play in the A Cups when the students are home and their squads can cope and compete better and if and when they feel that they want to step back up a division in the future - even better! A lot of very good ideas and suggestions in there, in my opinion. A couple of points I would raise from them are: Are Unst (in particullar) not a club with far to many good players to be playing in "B" league? Why do the Works League have to have the strict rules regarding B (they may be fringe players being prevented from playing in both therrs and the B league? If things got a little tough for ANY club, what is preveneting them from dropping down to the "B" league and therefore creating the same problem(s) again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC.Benvie Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Like most leagues south (scotland & england) teams are allowed to register only 25 players to select from. They can sign players during the season but must deregister a player who they can not resign. This would enable the better 'reserve players' at Delting & Celtic to join other teams which would raise the standard of the poorer teams and make the league more competitive throughout. The 'B' would be a proper reserve league in which youth team and registered players could play in. The best players in Shetland would be playing on a more regular basis. Why does Shetland have to be so different? This works in rural areas south. On the three minor clubs, Yell with half a dozen Delting B players would we good enough to compete in the A's, Unst will struggle with retirements but when students are home will be good enough to compete. Burra, were right to be forced to play A league, but, suffered due to no manager, better players ditching them due to their lack of character and the fact that they had a small squad to begin with. They will not survive as an A league team, fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISTnWAST Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 If anyone read my post from before, what Bogle suggested is almost the same as what I said. With the current set-up the only way I can see it being run, is to pick a realistic number of teams for the A league. Then at the end of the season if the bottom team is toiling badly, they can have the option to drop down or not. If they choose to drop down, the highest place non-reserve side can be told they must move up for the next season. If the bottom club doesn't want to drop down, and a team chooses to join the A league, it's expanded. But the 'magic' number must be remembered, and the bottom 2 would be offered the chance to drop down at the end of the season. The 'magic' number Bogle suggests is 8. I totally agree with that number, because it gives you enough "first" teams in the B league, to be able to ensure you would always be telling a fairly successful club, that they must make the step up. So.......If things got a little tough for ANY club, what is preveneting them from dropping down to the "B" league and therefore creating the same problem(s) again?That problem is solved. This is the give and take that is needed, that i've mentioned a few times before. The big clubs "give" the small clubs the chance to play in the B league. They "take" the opportunity to ensure they always have enough games. The small clubs "give" the big clubs their agreement that they will sometimes step up if they have to. They "take" the chance to be allowed to play B league if they need time to rebuild.This solution is amazingly simple really. I disagree with Bogle's idea about playing one cup without county players. For all my support on here for the smaller clubs, I think it would be wrong. The best team(s) should win the silverware end of story. It would devalue the trophy, and how would players feel about beating a severely depleted side to lift a cup? "Great, we scraped past Delting reserves 2-1 to win a cup, and a week later, their full team beat us 12-0. We really deserved to lift that cup though." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogle Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I disagree with Bogle's idea about playing one cup without county players. For all my support on here for the smaller clubs, I think it would be wrong. The best team(s) should win the silverware end of story. It would devalue the trophy, and how would players feel about beating a severely depleted side to lift a cup? "Great, we scraped past Delting reserves 2-1 to win a cup, and a week later, their full team beat us 12-0. We really deserved to lift that cup though." Critiscism accepted, it was really an idea to allow some form of footbal to take place during the break as this year it probably led to a bit of fixture congestion, well that and the rather pathetic summer weather we've had. I do reckon that some teams would be happy enough with that format though, it would give fringe players and "nearly" teams a chance of a Cup and a Cup is a Cup for all that?!?! I've won a few cups (not many leagues admittedly) but they all felt good no matter what one it was! For all Whalsay have the largest squad (probably) in senior fitba i doubt if there would be many of our players that would want to go out on loan for the following reasons. - Every match becomes an away match but you travel alone.- Who pays for your travel- Young players more likely to be in the loan category might not drive Not an exhaustive list by any means and maybe not insurmountable problems but enough to put a few off right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penfold Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I dont see why there should be a break for the county or inter island games, what is the purpose of the club's B teams if it is not to provide players to the A's in time of need, yes some clubs have a greater number of players in the County team, but you will find they also have a number of players that could step up to the A's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencey7 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 On the three minor clubs, Yell with half a dozen Delting B players would we good enough to compete in the A's.And what about the half dozen Yell players who are then left without a team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 There will be teams with 0 or only 1 or 2 county players, these teams (such as unst, yell, ness, burra etc.) should be encouraged to play through the break and decongest the season, this may mean some teams are without there best 1or 2 but. The players going out on loan couldn't be forced, it would have to be voluntary, some players would no doubt offer to go to other clubs and of course some players wouldn't. Nearer the season teams should talk to the players they see in this category and give them their options. I see unst, ness and yell having to try to stay in the A league, I mean how can you expect players like MAtthew Saunders, Neil Laurenson, Erik Thomson, Paul Henderson etc Who are these teams key players, to play in the b's. They must have aspirations of winning cups and even representing shetland and this won't happen in the b's. So these teams will have to enter the B league (and perhaps A cups) with their B teams. Is that an option??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 On the three minor clubs, Yell with half a dozen Delting B players would we good enough to compete in the A's.And what about the half dozen Yell players who are then left without a team? they go out on loan!!! There are 2 sides of the arguement they will have to force their way back into the team, I don't hink teams will attract 6 players on loan anyway, the most they will get is 1-3. and this will be enough o keep local boys playin and strengthening the teams. However do unst, yell etc want to be Deltings reserves??? It could be like hearts with a team with no local players playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penfold Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 There are some good points and idea's fae the posts on here, but I'm afraid if folk dont get aff der ass's and go to the SFA AGM or at least write to the secretary or get their club rep to put them across they won't make any difference, and it'll be the same fae the committee as last time "wir way or da highway" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorandJack Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Some good points made by all. "Are Unst (in particullar) not a club with far to many good players to be playing in "B" league?" Here lies the problem for Unst. The population of Unst would love to see the County side with Erik Thompson, Neil Laurenson, Paul Henderson and want to support them in the best way possible to do so. Unfotrunatley all three plus Neil Smith will be missing until mid June ATLEAST. Players like Darren Thompson, Liam Spence and David Thompson are also A standard but after that the squad is really struggling to compete at the higher level. We saw some rediculous scorelines this year but if the status quo continues we will see some cricket scores next season. That does not increase the standard of ANYONEs football and just produces meaningless fixtures. The suggestions of loans etc may be possible but sounds like it will complicate things and the success of any scheme relies on individuals not clubs. A suggestion for Unst would be to enter the Premier League and for Burra to enter the "Reserve" as Unst reserves. This would allow Burra to rebuild at the lower standard and encourage some "more experienced" players back into the game. The better Burra players could support Unst early in the season while sudents are missing. Depending how successful each side and its players were both sides could help each other out. This would give both clubs another season to build and perhaps both could sustain Premier sides. Any such co-operatives would require sanction from the SFA which, if indeed is made up of member clubs, should be granted due to the efforts made by both Unst and Burra thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marooned in Maywick Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Alternatively....there's an island a lot nearer Unst that they could combine with to form A and B teams. We could call them....oooh...let's have a think....something like.....Northern Rovers, maybe? Burra could rebrand themselves as Scalloway B and play all their home games at Burra thereby ensuring their inclusion in a B league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISTnWAST Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 PMSL MiM. I'm waiting eagerly for your logical solution to be shot down in flames, by some witless responses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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