Shetlandic words, help needed

[Njugle]

Possibly depends on the context. One meaning of gardie is the arm, or specifically the forearm.

 

It could perhaps also be a derivative of garth though, which is an enclosed cultivated yard.

 

Both options of Scots origin.

[Guest Anonymous]

^^^

Don't know about the arm, but garth, as used in many place names, is derived from Norse 'Gardr', meaning farm.

Currently in Norwegian, Gard or GÃ¥rd, is a farm. Also in west Norway, it can mean fence.

 

Interestingly, the first Norse settlement in Greenland was called Gardar.

 

I would think that gardie in relation to a place name, is almost certainly derived from norse.

[thekid]

Thanks for that you two,

 

im heard of houses being called "Leagarth" what about the "Lea" bit? is it as it sounds? meaning shelter???????

[Ghostrider]

^^ Could either be a shelter, of a corruption of "lie", meaning slope.

[Guest Anonymous]

'Lea' possibly from Norwegian 'Le', meaning a shelter. So Leagrath would mean 'Sheltered Farm'

[Dagfinn]

Thanks for that you two,

 

im heard of houses being called "Leagarth" what about the "Lea" bit? is it as it sounds? meaning shelter???????

Depends on the pronounciation. In "original" norse, a slope (hlíð) would be pronounced "lee" (after the loss of ð) and shelter (le/læ) would be pronounced "le".

So with that spelling both options are possible.

[derick]

Altho' the night were ne'er sae wild,

And I were ne'er sae weary, O,

I'll meet thee on the lea-rig,

My ain kind dearie, O.

 

Robert Burns

[derick]

In Shaetlan:

 

Although da night wis nivver sae wild,

And I wis nivver sae weary, O,

I'll meet dee on da lea-rig,

My owin kind dearie, O

 

I canna be doin wi Fake Vikeengs

[Dagfinn]

I'll meet dee on da lea-rig,

Interesting.

 

So you say "Leagarth" is a combination of Scots and Norse? What does "lea-rig" mean?

[Ghostrider]

I'll meet dee on da lea-rig,

Interesting.

 

So you say "Leagarth" is a combination of Scots and Norse? What does "lea-rig" mean?

 

'Rig', is a plot of arable land. The commonest uses I've heard of the term 'lea-rig' means a sheltered arable field, or an a arable field close to a recognised shelter, but there could be other less common ones.

[derick]

Slightly random towts on leas an rigs

 

Rig in shetlan is 'field' or fields

Tautie rig

Coarn rig

rig a rendall.

I used ta own a croft at hed inbye grund at wis rig a rendal, as it happens.

Der a lok a 'rigs' on dat usage in Scotland too.

 

"Corn rigs, an' barley rigs,

An' corn rigs are bonie:

I'll ne'er forget that happy night,

Amang the rigs wi' Annie.""

(Burns ageen)

 

It wid seem dat da rigs a tauties etc in Shetlan is a Scots usage.

- but I'm curious - Ir dey a 'rig' as in meaning 'field' wird in Norski or Danish?

 

Burns 'lea-rigg' is clearly 'sheltered field'. - an 'lea' in Scots dere is used ida sam wey as da scandiavian 'lee' dat Dagfinn is spaekin aboot. An still used in Shetlan in dat sense: 'boys, lat wis set wis ida lee'

 

ALSO

 

da Scots rig as in 'field' comes fae Rig an furrow, or cord rig.

 

an da rig in rig an furrow/cord rig is a ridge, referrin tae da ridges on da rig as it were. Joost laek your rig-bonn, or rigg-bane if you bide ida Shetlan Mainlaund an still spaek half laek da poet Dunbar did 500 year ago

 

"thy rigbane rattillis, and thy ribs on raw'

(the Flyting of Dunbar and Kennedy, st. 180).

Mod Shetlan 'Dy rigbane rattles, an dy ribs (is seen in a) row'

 

Rig and Furrow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buchansrigs.jpg

 

Cord rig

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cord_rig

 

Old Norse 'hryggr'

Old English 'hrycg'

Modern English 'ridge' (no longer applies tae your spine though)

modern Shetlan 'rig'

 

Leagarth could be eydir norse/norse lee garth 'sheltered fairm', or lea garth 'fairm on da slope'. mair laekly da latter in Shetlan!!!

 

Suppose dependin on whin it wis neemed it could be also be scots/norse lea (as in Burns usage o lea as 'sheltered') garth. If a place wis neemed bi someen at spok Scots, dey wid tak lea ta be da Scots usage 'sheltered'.

 

Der plenty Shetlan lea's as in da norse 'slope', as Dagfinn refers tae - e.g. Da Hoagly in Aest Yell - which is still exactly whit it says - "Hoga Lea" 'Green grazing on da sheltered slope'. Still green, still feedin stinkin njaarmin wooly monsters 900 year eftir it wis neemed, except da neem nou haes da shetlan dialect 'Da' at da start o him, an hence is mair interestin as a 'pure' norse neem.

 

Der plenty 'lea' slopes in Scotland too

Craigielea

Braidislee

 

"It's up and spake the first forester

He was heid ane amang them a'

"Can this be Johnny O' Braidislee?"

(Scots Border Ballad - Johnny O Braidislee)

 

 

 

I did see dis in case onybody is interestit

SCANDINAVIAN INFLUENCE ON SOUTHERN LOWLAND SCOTCH

GEORGE TOBIAS FLOM, B.L., A.M. 1966

 

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/4/6/0/14604/14604.txt

 

as faur as I could be buddered ta read Flom is arguin at da scandinavian influence on Scots is Owld Danish moastly.

[derick]

actually whin I tink o't

 

tautie rigs or coarn rigs is a germanic syntax - ida foarm 'AB'

 

whereas rigs a tauties (at I used unconsciously ida post abuin), or rigs a coarn is a gaelic-derived syntax - ida foarm 'B of A'. Absorbed inta Scots in Scots/Gaelic boundary areas ida nortaest o Scotland, an dan taen ta Shetlan fae dere

 

You get da sam wi place neems.

 

E.g in Yell

Vatster Loch - Vatn Str Loch

'Norse ' lake farm', gaelic 'lake'

and germanic syntax

 

Loch a Vatster - sam wirds but da gaelic-derived syntax (except da Scots 'o' is replaced bi da Shetlan dialect 'a'

 

Fok uses baith foarms in conversation, but mair da latter een.

 

Incidentally Da OS map, an da rodd signs caas dis place Vatsetter - which wid be Vatn Saetr - but I tink dat is a misinterpretation - da fairm is bi da loch, no on a hill bi da loch. An da local pronoonciation is still 'str', no 'setter'. So whit wey did da OS get setter?? wierd.

 

Der a Loch o Vatster on da mainlaund somewhaur - ageen, wi da gaelic-derived syntax. At laest da OS spelt dat een right.

[Girzie]

ld be "da ley rig" - one that hadn't been cultivated?

[DePooperit]

actually whin I tink o't

 

tautie rigs or coarn rigs is a germanic syntax - ida foarm 'AB'

 

whereas rigs a tauties (at I used unconsciously ida post abuin), or rigs a coarn is a gaelic-derived syntax - ida foarm 'B of A'. Absorbed inta Scots in Scots/Gaelic boundary areas ida nortaest o Scotland, an dan taen ta Shetlan fae dere

 

You get da sam wi place neems.

 

E.g in Yell

Vatster Loch - Vatn Str Loch

'Norse ' lake farm', gaelic 'lake'

and germanic syntax

 

Loch a Vatster - sam wirds but da gaelic-derived syntax (except da Scots 'o' is replaced bi da Shetlan dialect 'a'

 

Fok uses baith foarms in conversation, but mair da latter een.

 

Incidentally Da OS map, an da rodd signs caas dis place Vatsetter - which wid be Vatn Saetr - but I tink dat is a misinterpretation - da fairm is bi da loch, no on a hill bi da loch. An da local pronoonciation is still 'str', no 'setter'. So whit wey did da OS get setter?? wierd.

 

Der a Loch o Vatster on da mainlaund somewhaur - ageen, wi da gaelic-derived syntax. At laest da OS spelt dat een right.

 

Tinks du at da form 'B of A' is Gaelic-derived? Dui you no git da sam form in English syntax, ithoot Gaelic influence? I mean, in standard English, du says 'John's coat' bit 'The top of the hill.' You could traep at dis form in English is Brythonic, faa da aald Breetish, bit even at dat dae wid be nae need ta suppose a separate origin fae da Gaelic.

 

For 'Loch o Vatster' an 'Vatster Loch', wid dis no be da laeter Scots 'Loch' replaecin a oreeginal Norse 'Vatn'? So first da fairm wid a been caad efter da vatn, an dan da loch in turn caad efter da fairm?

 

John Stewart, Shetland Place Names, mentions twa 'Vatsetter's an ee 'Vatster.' For da Tingwall ene, spelt Vatsetter bit sed 'Vatster' he gies different spellins gaein back hunders o years, suggestin at hit wid oreeginally a been sed 'Vatsetter' - fae Vatn setr. Plaece naems in ony language tends ta git shortened in spaek, so map spellins aften shaas a aalder pronunciation - laek Aithsetter ('Aester') an Bakkasetter ('Bakster'). (Dis is oonlaek spellins laek 'Walls' at haes a 'l' i dem at never wis dere ava.) So I doot da Vatsetter spellin is richt aneoch.

[derick]

Tinks du at da form 'B of A' is Gaelic-derived? Dui you no git da sam form in English syntax, ithoot Gaelic influence? I mean, in standard English, du says 'John's coat' bit 'The top of the hill.' You could traep at dis form in English is Brythonic, faa da aald Breetish, bit even at dat dae wid be nae need ta suppose a separate origin fae da Gaelic.

 

I did see dis argument dat 'B of A' place neems in Shetlan is post-norse, Gaelic derived, in a book ida Archives, but I canna mind da neem o him, alas. Tink da author wis a guy caaed Nicolaisen?

 

Wheydir Gaelic or Pictish derived da point is dat you dunna get 'B of A' in Scandinavia, or no ta ony graet extent. Place neems in Shetlan is faur mair interestin as joost being 'pure' norse - I do tink at some oda fok at's lookit at dis ida past - Stewart fur wan, hed der 'norse glesses' on. Der clearly a lok a post norse neems - da addeetion o 'Loch' at Vatster is a clear een - an as argued here 'B of A' is too.

 

As Jacobsen wis awaur der a lok a pre-norse neems as weel. An fur dat you wid look at major features oda laundscape, or whaur previous 'norse' interpretations starts ta struggle.

 

Sheltand, Yell, Onst, Fetlar - da norse interpretations starts ta faa back on 'may be', 'could be' 'possible interpretation' an such laek ta try an expleen. Da simplest interpretation is usually da correct een - dis is no norse neems. Compare Whalsa, Bressa, Noss an so on - clearly norse.

 

if you look in Aiberdeenshire, you can see at da major laund features is Pictish - Welsh basically, consider Aberdeen an Aberystwyth - baith da sam Aber 'meeting of the waters' - da Gaelic 'Inver' means da sam thing', Da Dee, da Don an da Ythan, major rivers, is aa pictish neems.

 

Whit is really interestin is da hybrid neems whaur you hae a celtic pairt an a norse pairt clearly added eftir - see numerous examples in Marwick

 

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/PSAS_2002/pdf/vol_057/57_251_265.pdf

 

Previous writers wi da owld 'norse glesses' on wis lookin fur norse neems, an tae an extent dat coloured der view.

 

Tak Haltadance in Feltar. Da norse glesses gies you 'Hjalt', pictish glesses gies you 'Allt'. Da fake norse invented victorian story says Haltadance is giants at danced owre late an turned ta stone (total tripe); da Fetlar story says Haltadance wis a place o trial an execution (soonds mair laek it)

 

Or Melby, or Trebister - treb an meal/mell is baith meetioned in Marwick

 

Whit I am trying ta say is keep an opin mind.

 

Vatster - Tak da point at written neems can be mair conservative as spoaken foarms. Still tink dat da physical shape oda place looks mair laek ta stadr as saeter.

 

I joost fin aa dis stuff fascinating