Shetland Place names

[Ghostrider]

ham - AN höfn, a harbour

(Ham)navoe- Harbour Bay

Come on, anyone fae Burra should surely ken dat!

 

I towt at Bay wis "Wick" as in da auld Norse "Vik". i.e. Lerik in auld norse is Leirvik= Muddy Bay.

 

If Hamnavoe wis tae be Harbour Bay wid hit no hae tae be caa'd Hamwick?

 

Does onyeen ken whit "Navoe" or maybe derived fae "Da Voe" means?

 

Two different sorts of bay, wick generally is a relatively wide bay open to the sea, whereas a voe is usually narrower and often deeper in to the land.

[Oddrun]

You are quite right, Ghostrider, and the word "Voe" must come from old Norse "Vag", today it has become "VÃ¥g" .

Here where we live we have a voe called "Flatevågen". The first part "Flate" has in old days been "Flatabustadir", and that's the same as "Fladdabister" in Shetland, so in Shetland the name of the voe would be "Fladdabister Voe" or "The Voe of Fladdabister" ...and there is a place called Lervik in the voe

Cheers Oddrun

[Dagfinn]

Two different sorts of bay, wick generally is a relatively wide bay open to the sea, whereas a voe is usually narrower and often deeper in to the land.

That is correct Ghostrider.

 

I found this description of the meaning of Shetland placenames on this link: http://www.electricscotland.com/history/shetland.htm

 

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/images/shetla30.jpg

[PJ of Hildisvik]

With all the Norse place names in the Isles, it' amazing how the word Loch has stuck, it seems to make a mockery of places like Gossa Water etc.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

Ham in old English means Village normally, do any of you think the Hams in Shetland could possibly be handed down from small communitys of Saxons here long before the Norse?Keep an open mind now

[brunalf]

anider name fur a loch is shun,as in lumishun.basically means raingoose loch.but da neerest modern use o da word SHUN as far as i'm seen comes fae either faroe or iceland so it most be an old word fur here aboots.

[Njugle]

I wis led tae believe dat "Loomi shun" pretty much meant "oily pond", the loomi bit being oily residue on the surface that leaches out of peat, or maybe it's fae bird sharn.

[Dagfinn]

anider name fur a loch is shun,as in lumishun.basically means raingoose loch.but da neerest modern use o da word SHUN as far as i'm seen comes fae either faroe or iceland so it most be an old word fur here aboots.

Actually, in this case Shaetlan is closer to Mainland Scandinavian than Faroese. In Faroese a lake is 'vatn', while 'sjóv' means 'sea' (ocean) ref. Shaetlan 'shoor-mol' (the sea edge); while in Mainland Scandinavian a 'sjø' [shoe] means a 'lake'; definite 'sjøen/sjøn' [:shun:] 'the sjø' i.e. 'the lake'.

 

'Lom' means 'Red-throated Diver' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-throated_Diver

 

Lumi-shun = 'Lake of (with) the Red-throated Diver'

 

Here is a link to a Norwegian 'Lomsjøen' which is the same as shaetlan 'lumishun': http://www.unearthedoutdoors.net/lakes/41946

 

Hope that clears things up

[Guest Anonymous]

Don't want to argue with Dagfinn, but:

Sjø literally means Sea, but it is used for some of the larger lakes in Norway, in which case it would be 'innsjø' (Literally 'Inland Sea').

Most lakes are 'vatn'.

The open ocean is 'hav'

A few examples of the use of the word 'Sjø, would be; 'sjøbilde' (Seascape), 'sjøbad' (Sea bathing), 'sjøby' (Seaside town), 'sjøfarer' (Seafarer).

 

Interestingly I would pronounce 'shun' more like 'shon'. Maybe just a Ness thing. Perhaps Ghostrider could confirm that.

 

Cheers,

Da Auld Een

[Ghostrider]

^^ I've never heard it pronounced any other way than "shon", its the only pronounciation at least as far as the Ness is concerned. I couldn't say just how far north it goes though, its not a word that crops up in conversation with strangers much, so I can't say I've noticed what the pronounciations are like in other areas.

 

Shun of course, at the Ness at least, is something entirely different, you wear those on your feet. (shoes).

 

A "loam" as I'd pronounce it, is a visible very thin scum or a sheen on the surface of water, so to me Njugle's explanation is self explanatory and makes perfect sense, a pool of water noted for having a scum or sheen on it.

[Ghostrider]

While I'm here.

 

I seem to vaguely remember someone posting, I think somewhere on this site, some time ago, the old Viking/Norse/Norn word for the better/best quality pasture land near a settlement, on which they usually grazed cattle. The word began with a "v", possibly "vin.......something".

 

I've had a dig round a couple of times but can't seem to find the original post with it, or maybe I can't see it for looking at it....anyone help? Thanks.

[Medziotojas]

Winyadepla

 

Fae the Place Names of Shetland by Jakob Jakobsen

 

O.N depill, m., stagnant water, puddle.

 

O.N. vin (gen. vinjar)f., a pasture, meadow. ... The v-sound, as in many other Shetl. Norn words has been changed to w: (de loch o') Winja depla (Fe.) swampy meadow pasture

 

see page 1 (although no mention of 'quality' or 'grazing', this is obviously the root word)

[Dagfinn]

Well, what's the size of this lake?

 

A "loam" as I'd pronounce it, is a visible very thin scum or a sheen on the surface of water, so to me Njugle's explanation is self explanatory and makes perfect sense, a pool of water noted for having a scum or sheen on it.

'Loam' vs 'lumi', that's the problem when words get corrupted because people don't know what they mean. This is probably 'ljómi' with the meaning Ghostrider gives here.

 

I wis led tae believe dat "Loomi shun" pretty much meant "oily pond", the loomi bit being oily residue on the surface that leaches out of peat, or maybe it's fae bird sharn.

Now that's interesting, because if this is a small lake, the word 'shun' is probably the same as Faroese 'tjørn' i.e. a small lake, a tarn, a pond (sjonn in JJ’s Dictionary).

 

Is this 'Lumishun' a small lake?

[groilick]

hemaboot wis wi hae 'da guttery shuns' peerie shallow lochs or tarns just a few metres across

[DePooperit]

Well, what's the size of this lake?

 

A "loam" as I'd pronounce it, is a visible very thin scum or a sheen on the surface of water, so to me Njugle's explanation is self explanatory and makes perfect sense, a pool of water noted for having a scum or sheen on it.

'Loam' vs 'lumi', that's the problem when words get corrupted because people don't know what they mean. This is probably 'ljómi' with the meaning Ghostrider gives here.

 

What do you mean by 'corrupted because people don't know what they mean?' People (of my generation) do know what 'loumie' (as I would spell it) means. It means a thin oil slick, and was most characteristically used of the oily film which appeared on the surface of the water when fisherman at the 'craigs' (shore fishing) chewed up limpets and spat them in the watter to attract 'sillocks' or immature saithe, and then typically caught them on bare unbaited hooks. This dispersed bait was known as 'so' and the practice of spitting it in was 'sprootin in da so.' (Interestingly, there is a Gaelic song - recorded by Runrig at one point - that describes the same practice in the Western Isles.) As far as I can remember off the top of my head, it originates from ON ljómi, related to a root meaning to shine.

 

There are (at least) two issues behind the different variants of this word:

 

1. Local variants of the original ON word. The word is cited by Jakobsen under the headword Ljumi, pronounced [ljúmi], ie, with a long 'oo' sound. I pronounce it [lúmi] - with a long 'oo' sound but without the palatalisation (y after the l), and I've heard the pronounciation 'luim' [løm] from other parts of Shetland.

 

I suppose, in view of the low perception of dialect in Shetland and the UK generally, that it would be legitimate to describe this process as 'corruption', but it has nothing to do with not understanding the meaning.

 

2. The second issue is the difficulty of knowing exactly what pronunciation people are trying to put across using English spelling. So I can assume that the 'oa' in the spelling 'loam' is intended to indicate a long, close 'o' sound, and that this pronunciation of the word would rhyme with English 'foam' 'home' , 'roam', etc. But this isn't necessarily the intent of the writer. It could equally be an attempt to indicate the long 'oo' sound, which I attempt to indicate by OU in my spelling 'loumie'.

 

So I'd better ask Ghostrider:

 

Does your pronunciation rhyme with words like English 'foam', 'roam', etc. or is it a sound like the 'oo' sound in 'room', but longer?

 

Again, this illustrates more about attitudes in Shetland than it does about the Shetland tongue, or tongues, itself, or themselves. The tongue-or-tongues-with-no-name (this seems to be the only safe thing to call it/them) can either be represented as a distinct entity with its own phonological characteristics - including the long 'oo' sound in words like 'loumie', which I used to represent by a distinct spelling OU - or it can be regarded as a further corruption of various forms of language (Norn, Scots) which were themselves regarded as corrupt before they were safely consigned to history (Norn) or will be regarded as corrupt until they are (Scots).