DePooperit Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I'm sure they could consider us rude since we don't have their equivalent of the context sensitive pronouns 'tu' and 'vous'; they consider these necessary for correct formal speaking. Don't we? In traditional Shetland, the word 'please' is rarely used either, but that doesn't mean that Shetlanders are impolite. The connotation is (perhaps I should say 'was') expressed by tenses. So 'Please help me to round up the sheep tomorrow' might be something like 'Du laekly widna a come an helpit me tae a caad da crui da morn.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Don't we?Not as far as I'm aware. If I was talking to the Queen, I would still have to use 'you' to refer to her, unless I was going to ask in the 3rd-person or something equally cumbersome. In traditional Shetland, the word 'please' is rarely used eitherPrecisely. Which makes the evaluation of rudeness very subjective when one is comparing cultures, as EnglishinScotland is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filskadacat Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Don't we?Not as far as I'm aware. But but but … we have ‘du’ and ‘you’! – and with a fair degree of acquaintance with French language and culture, I have always understood the application of these to be broadly similar to that of 'tu' and 'vous'. Many years ago my first husband, an Englishman, took it up on himself to address one of my (Shetland) uncles as ’du’ without having been so invited. A very frosty silence ensued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 With regard to 'please', am i right in remembering that Norway has no word for 'please'? Somewhere i've been had this to be the case anyway, bit of a shock but once you understand it's fine. I tend to agree with Depooperit about the "Du widna...., wid du?" alternative. To be as blunt as EnglishinScotland asked, i would have to say that in most or all countries i have visited the English have a bad reputation, and to assert yourself as Scottish , in the absence of knowledge of Shetland, is usually favourable to "British" in terms of response. My own negative experience of the English abroad has usually involved mockneys, wearing rugby/football shirts usually drunk, travelling in packs, and flouting any rules or decorum befitting their location. It is they who seem to propagate the negative portrayal. A bit like Texans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 With regard to 'please', am i right in remembering that Norway has no word for 'please'?As I said on the previous page... And it was a Norwegian who told me this, so I'm pretty sure it's accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 oops, there must have been a glitch on my monitor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 got this on sunday fae a scotsman wha got it fae a welshman whats red white and blue and goes BEEEP BEEP BEEP - the England open top bus going back into the garage what goes SPLASH SPLASH GLOOP GLOOP GLOOP - Johnny Wilkonson finding out he can't walk on water oh shame I am so upset that I won't be able to hear how good these chaps are EVERY WEEKEND FOR THE NEXT FOUR 'KIN YEARS. The only way sir Johnny is going to rise is when they knight a condom machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I've always wondered about the whole 'England expects' garbage that fills the media whenever there is a sportsperson or team with a chance of winning. Why is it never enough for people just to do their best and if they win - bonus. The pressure putting upon these sports people must be very distracting. In Scotland the supporters seem to actually 'support' more than the English who pressurise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medziotojas Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 My own negative experience of the English abroad has usually involved mockneys, wearing rugby/football shirts usually drunk, travelling in packs, and flouting any rules or decorum befitting their location. It is they who seem to propagate the negative portrayal. A bit like Texans. This is an unfortunate truth. The ex-pats from England who live here cringe (as do I) when they meet one of these Football/Rugby/Stag type do's. It's usually a case of avoiding eye contact and switching to the Lithuanian language until they've passed. It's amazing the obscenities you hear when they think you don't understand them. It's unfortunate for England that this tiny minority manages to give the rest of the nation a bad reputation, but people ought to see beyond this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DePooperit Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 @fjool - it depends on who you mean by 'we'. We in Shetland do have a distinction between the familiar pronoun 'du' and the formal/plural pronoun 'you'. @njuggle - my acquaintance with the Nordic tongues is even less now than it used to be, but I if I was trying to speak Swedish I would say 'tack' (Norwegian 'takk' = thanks) at the end of the request, which would have the same meaning as 'please' in English. If this is correct - I was waiting for one of the many Scandinavians on this list to answer before I did - it just means that they use the same word for 'thanks' and 'please'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 @fjool - it depends on who you mean by 'we'I meant 'we, who are speaking English'... this being a thread about England/English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnSaxon Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Okay, I admit my interest. I was born in Brighton, darn nearly as unScottish / unShetland as you can get. Oh, and I usually claim to be British, just because it feels better than English, so that point is true too. I'd love to say that we English were the salt of the earth, etc., etc., but (as several posts above mention) our usual reputation just about anywhere is, well, somewhere around the other end of the scale. Equally, most of us, the ones who don't spend our time grossing out other peoples in their own countries, are, I find, mostly okay, like most people. Unfortunately, it's the ones who do misbehave who get remembered and used as examples, and the rest of us get tarred with the same brush. Among the English, I reckon it's more of a generational thing, and sadly it seems to be the children of my own generation (and their children) who have most lost respect for others. I wish I knew what the solution was, but every time I think about it I end up sounding like my parents' generation. Just treat me as another person, rather than as "an Englishman". Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnSaxon Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 AlsoMany years ago my first husband, an Englishman, took it up on himself to address one of my (Shetland) uncles as ’du’ without having been so invited. A very frosty silence ensued.Or as they say in Yorkshire, "Don't tha thee tha those as doesna thee tha thee" The English can do it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishinScotland Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Among the English, I reckon it's more of a generational thing, and sadly it seems to be the children of my own generation (and their children) who have most lost respect for others. I wish I knew what the solution was, but every time I think about it I end up sounding like my parents' generation. You think the culture of respect has gone and hasn't yet in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnSaxon Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Sadly I think it's getting that way everywhere. Bring back conscription! Oops. You see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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