The Rangers & Celtic thread.

[Dratsy]

I've never said that anyone is out to get us I am only stating the old saying he who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

It is amusing to see yourself and kirsty getting worked up almost to the point of orgasm when banging on about rangers troubles, while both of you forgetting that celtic have a murky past and a scumbag for a manager.

[mossbanker tim]

I've never said that anyone is out to get us I am only stating the old saying he who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

It is amusing to see yourself and kirsty getting worked up almost to the point of orgasm when banging on about rangers troubles, while both of you forgetting that celtic have a murky past and a scumbag for a manager.

 

Rangers troubles are self inflicted.

 

You obviously hate Neil Lennon and your comments are disgraceful and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Would you like to explain you comments regarding Celtics murky past. Given the fact that Rangers (and not anyone else) are being investigated for possible financial cheating and their 100 year sectarian signing policy I'd be careful of your comments - stones and glass houses as you said yourself.

[Dratsy]

In a country that is 90% protestant celtic would of found it impossible to compete if they had maintained a sectarian policy so them signing protestants was from necessity not some anti sectarian ethos.

both teams for much of their history signed players from the local area and for both teams that meant protestants.

 

but if you want a few catholics that played for rangers before Mo Johnston here goes

Archie Kyle

Willie “Doc†Kivlichan (Who, like Johnston, was an Ex-Celtic player)

Colin Mainds

Tom Murray

Pat Lafferty

Johnny Jackson

James Tutty

Tom Dunbar (Brother of Michael Dunbar who became a Celtic director)

Joe Donnachie

Hugh O’Neill

Constantine McGhie

Don Kichenbrand

Laurie Blyth

John Spencer

McCallum

Brown

Wylie

John Clare

Johnny Kennedy

Charles McCafferty (Never made a first team appearance)

Daniel Divers

Chris Houston

John Manners

Bob Cleary

George (or Gorg) Banciewicz

Eddie Devenney

Terry Sloan

Brian Grubb

Edward Devlin

Andy Casey

Tom Cassidy

Bob "Dancer" Dunn

Peter Mone

"Starry" McLachlan,

take your pic, am not sure which one was first but they were all signed and there have been plenty since

 

As to celtics murky past the Kelly's time in charge should ring a few alarm bells even for you.

 

As for me not liking lennon. What is there to like about the man?

[tirvaluk]

from Wikipidia..During the late 19th century, many immigrants came to Glasgow from Ireland – this was a time of considerable anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment in Scotland. By the early 20th century, Catholic players were asked to leave the club. Between World War I and the 1980s, Rangers did not knowingly sign any Catholic players. Many have written about the club's refusal to sign Catholic players, or employ Catholics in other roles, and the discrimination against employees who married Catholics. Particularly from the 1970s, Rangers came under increasing media pressure over their policy, but several of the club's directors publicly defended its position.

[beachcaster]

Dratsy, you're not the only one who can lift information from another website, and just as you have done, I have chosen the version that I want to believe.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"Everybody knows, that list is unofficial and was just posted by someone on (I think a Scotsman News Forum), you can do a search and come across it in many locations nowadays.

 

The list is sceptical at best, as the majority of names, upon searching, cannot be found, or not certainly found to have played for Rangers at any point.

 

The below is a list of the ones that actually can be verified, as playing for Rangers (can't definitely say whether or not they are Catholic)

 

Pat Lafferty --- 1886

Tom Dunbar --- 1891/1892

James Tutty --- 1899/1900

Willie “Doc†Kivlichan --- 1905/1906

Colin Mainds --- 1906/1907

Archie Kyle --- 1907/1908

Tom Murray --- 1907/1908

Johnny Jackson --- 1917

Joe Donachie --- 1914/1918

Laurie Blyth --- 1951/1952 - whom it was not known he was a Catholic when he signed

Laurie Blyth --- 1951/1952 - signed by 'accident' and was released once his religion was known.

Hugh O’Neill --- 1976

Jon Spencer --- 1987/1992

 

As for the rest of the names on the list (see below),

 

Constantine McGhie

John Clare

Johnny Kennedy

Charles McCafferty (Never made a first team appearance)

Daniel Divers

Chris Houston

John Manners

Bob Cleary

George (or Gorg) Banciewicz

Eddie Devenney

Terry Sloan

Brian Grubb

Edward Devlin

Andy Casey

Tom Cassidy

Bob "Dancer" Dunn

Peter Mone

"Starry" McLachlan

 

There is another story on the web that goes like this;

 

"Closer scrutiny however would reveal the true nature of some of these names was not of a footballing background, but was of a scholastic nature.

 

It would appear that many of the names that appear on this list are former teachers of St Aloysius College!

 

This from a comment posted on the Scotsman Site: -

 

"William at 72, your list of Catholic Rangers players is certainly impressively long. Obviously the very idea of a sectarian signing policy was a vile slur.

However, I notice that a large number of these Rangers players' names bear a striking similarity to those of the teaching staff working at St Aloysius College in the late 1970s and early 1980s. To wit:

Charles McCafferty or "Weed" as we knew him - Latin master at St Al's. Liked the Aeneid and Caesar's Gallic War. I didn't. Rumour had it that he had been on Celtic's books at one point.

Daniel (Dan) Divers - also Latin master at St Al's, as were Chris Houston (Sweaty, RIP) and Bob (Bob) Cleary. So that's the entire Latin department from my time at St Al's. What a great back four they'd have made. Badminton was more Sweaty's speed, I think.

John - or rather, Father - Manners was before my time, but I believe he was a Jesuit man and that his nickname was Toad.

George Banciewizc was a somewhat psychotic maths teacher, fond of hurling the wooden blackboard duster at the inattentive. Truly terrifying man and too scary for a nickname.

Terry Sloan was a fellow pupil who I sat beside in 4th year chemistry. Played bass in a very bad sub-Stranglers band called Underground Hero.

Brian Grubb was the useless and slightly thuggish physics teacher who was fired for moonlighting as a minicab driver. No need for a nickname with a surname likes that.

Edward Devlin was the useful but slightly scary physics teacher. Nickname was "Ernie" after the v dull motorbike daredevil cartoon of the same name.

Andy Casey was a rather dapper geography teacher who apparently had some connection with Clyde FC. Had a worrying attachment to colour pencils.

Tom (Butch) Cassidy was a Canadian redhead who succeeded Andy Casey as head of geography after Andy became burser in 1980. Trained to be a priest at Maynooth, but apparently couldn't hack it. Not a great teacher, but a good guy.

The fact that most of these teachers are actually grouped together by the subjects they taught tells me, William, that you have been hoaxed - and quite imaginatively. Who would have thought that these thoroughly Fenian pedagogues from the most Catholic school in Scotland led a double life as Rangers' non-sectarian alibi? God, you think you know people.

Unfortunately, all of this casts doubt on the veracity of most of the rest of your names, and thoroughly undermines your point, does it not?"

 

 

Now I'm not saying, this the above quote is correct, but it has as much validity as your list, which is basically jack *****.

 

Another interesting thing is, yes you signed a few Catholics over the years 13 (that we can verify) in a total of 126 years (1873 to 1989), but 9 were before the 1st World War, itself 91 years ago, so you only signed (4 we can verify) in 66 years (1917 to 1989) and it appears two were a mistake. Hardly what I'd call "open doors to all", would you?

 

You also notice not many seem to stick around that long did they? What's the longest (Jonn Spencer 5 years) and even that, was probably made easier by the signing of Mo Jo."

[mossbanker tim]

That was probably one of the worst explanations for justifying a sectarian policy I have ever heard of. Disgraceful and sickening to the core. No wonder people hate what Rangers stand for. You lot have a song ...No one likes us we don't care... says it all really.

 

I was joking with respect to the ice cream and jelly until yesterday, now I really do look forward to it.

[Dratsy]

As the rangers web site does not disclose the religion of its players then that was the only list I could find, I will admit there is probably no way to ascertain its true accuracy but by the same token anything taken from wikipedia could just as easily be bull***t.

But lets have a look at your claim of only 13 players of the catholic faith, with the amount of foreigners playing in light blue I would say that is total bulls**t too.

Yes among the support their is a sectarian bias but that is also true of celtic and the vile songs sung in support of the IRA. Then lets look at the effort or lack of it at parkhead to stamp out sectarian singing and flag waving, not much prevention going on there.

How many scottish flags as opposed to irish flags with the orange replaced with yellow, and if they do have a st andrews cross it is on a green background. Some scottish team they are then?

 

Now lets look at the favourite song at Ibrox "the billy boys" Yes it does mention being up to the knees in fenian blood, but a fenian is not a catholic but an irish warrior so not a religious sectarian song after all, also it will be heard at every ground in Scotland where a game is being played and watched by spectators yet it is only when it is sung by rangers fans that it is considered sectarian.

 

A bit of double standards there then,

so get over yourselves yes there has been a problem at rangers with sectarianism but that was put to bed by the club a long time ago. I have been to many games at Ibrox and have witnessed folk getting chucked out for sectarian abuse, and I've also been to parkhead and watched as stewerds and police alike ignored sectarian abuse and IRA chants from the fans.

So get your own house in order before you start slagging off rangers at least they are trying to address the problem.

 

NO SURRENDER

[Roachmill]

...at least they are trying to address the problem...

Aw, how good of them to try and make things right. It's not like they got caught and are being forced to fix the mess they've plopped themselves in to or anything.

[Piddly]

...at least they are trying to address the problem...

Aw, how good of them to try and make things right. It's not like they got caught and are being forced to fix the mess they've plopped themselves in to or anything.

 

He's talking about the sectarianism not the current financial situation.

 

The way I see it, both old firm clubs are as bad as each other as far as the chanting goes, it also goes on at all other clubs. The only difference is Celtic/Rangers get all the exposure. You go on about the sectarian chanting, the financial skulduggery etc etc, to me and what trumps all else was the child abuse that went on inside Celtic Park in the late 60's early 70's, which Celtic tried to cover up.

[Dratsy]

Oh piddly I was saving that one. But here we go I would rather some one shouted names at me from the other side of the park than shagged my kid in the dressing room. But yet again celtic can do no wrong after all the priests all do it so why not them.

Shame on you celtic.

 

Now lets get back to lennon quotes

Killy 1 celtic 0 "the refs a cheat"

St Johnstone game "the ref better not cheat"

Rangers game "get a f****ng grip ref you cheat"

"In fact every ones a cheat except celtic"

"people dont like me, not because I'm an ass but because I'm ginger"

(OK I made that last one up he's hated because he's an ass)

 

The best thing that could happen to celtic is lennon goes, I HOPE HE STAYS

[Dratsy]

That was probably one of the worst explanations for justifying a sectarian policy I have ever heard of. Disgraceful and sickening to the core. No wonder people hate what Rangers stand for. You lot have a song ...No one likes us we don't care... says it all really.

 

I was joking with respect to the ice cream and jelly until yesterday, now I really do look forward to it.

 

So with celtics non sectarian policy over the course of their history they will have signed 90% protestant players anything less will show an anti protestant bias.

[penfold]

Things don't change much in here apart from folk arguing over stuff that other posters were arguing about way back on pages 13/14 etc and still no winners.

 

How about debating the stance of the old firm on blocking change within the SPL and its damage to the rest of Scottish football something new for a change.

[mossbanker tim]

Pathetic argument. Some of Celtics greatest players and captains were protestants who were signed for their football ability -nothing else. Indeed Celtic greatest ever manager Jock Stein was a Rangers supporting protestant. Again given the job on ability - nothing else. I am disturbed by your offensive posts in the last couple of days and I'm disgusted that a fellow Shetlander can have such extreme views.

 

If my views have offended anyone, I appologise and will no longer contribute on this site.

[Dratsy]

by god you think my views are extreme you really don't get out much mbt.

And having just read all my posts again I fail to see anything extreme in the slightest

Just admit like I have that your team and support have their share of bigots just like rangers do.

And accept that celtic really have done very little to stop the bigotry in the stands, unlike rangers who have banned dozens at least if not hundreds of folk for their bigotry.

Only on a few high profile occasions have celtic done anything to address the problem, and then under duress.

 

 

Now penfold what change would you like to see, an expanded spl to say 18 teams. what then of the 4 games a season that the rest of the spl have anything like a full house reduced to 2 when the old firm visit. teams in financial hardship would go to the wall with the reduced income, less tv revenue because sky are not interested in showing dunfermline aberdeen but will broadcast either of the old firm playing anyone else.

The simple fact is outside of the old firm there is no appetite or ability for spending the kind of money needed to compete on an international stage.

I would love to see a more competitive spl if only to give rangers top quality match practice to take into europe with them.

[Marooned in Maywick]

Good shout penfold.

 

How about debating the stance of the old firm on blocking change within the SPL and its damage to the rest of Scottish football something new for a change.

 

Firstly the preposterous 11-1 voting mechanism that guarantees the Old Firm get whatever they want...or at least ensures they can veto anything that could provide even a modicum of fairness. That MUST change.

 

I'll leave you with a quote from a poster on a Hearts forum regarding the distribution of TV money that sums up pretty much how many feel about the Siamese twins.

 

The TV money is, to some degree, a red herring. It's not about ensuring the OF stay wealthy, although a split pot of £5mil is certainly nice. It's about keeping the rest of the league in an equilibrium of pishness whilst they get champions league money, which dwarfs other teams budgets. By ensuring that the rest of the league maintain a hand to mouth existence they give everyone the impression that they're only alive due to the OF's largesse, whereas the truth is they're hoovering up a disproportionate percentage of the TV deal not because they need it, but because to do it differently, fairly, would lead to something the OF have absolutely no interest in. A degree of competition.

 

Having ten times as many season ticket holders as most other clubs isnt enough. Earning more from taking a humping in the champions league than most clubs make in a year isnt enough. Having the authorities complicit in their dodgy dealings isnt enough. Having the media fawn over them in some incestuous, symbiotic relationship isnt enough. No, just to ensure everyone else has to live in an equal squalor and be thankful they ensure that there is a bigger gap in the TV income between 2nd and 3rd than 3rd and 12th - a bigger gap between 2nd and 3rd than 3rd and 12th! They continue to stack everything in their favour and expect us to be grateful.

 

pootle 'em.

 

...and no, he didn't say 'pootle'...