The Rangers & Celtic thread.

[Para Handy]

Why doesn’t Celtic buy Rangers?

[jambo6]

Now that Bill Miller has seen the books at Rangers and has pulled out of the bidding, what chance is there now for Rangers future?

 

If you want unblinkered answers to that the blogosphere is the place to look.

 

Channel 4's Alex Thomson

 

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/next-24-48-hours-vital-rangers/1422

 

And the Rangers Tax case blog

 

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/

 

are both good resources. The Scottish media have been critical of bloggers over this but you can see the RTC blog has been predicting disaster for over a year while the media have been sweeping it under the carpet as they seem too scared to do anything but cosy up to Rangers.

 

I dont think they'll survive - its dragging on too long and soon they will have to pay up or fold. This is better for them in the long run imo, a new Rangers starting in Div 3 would be clean and have the integrity they desperately lack at the moment. The loathing a newco that stays in the SPL will receive is not to be trifled with. The club have cheated their way to a generations worth of silverware and prizemoney and the reward would be a generation of almost universal hatred from the rest of Scottish supporters if you go by the polls.

 

I dont share the media-driven view that the SPL is stuffed without Rangers. Expand it to 16 or 18 and it would be a lot more competitive - having to play Celtic twice instead of playing Rangers/Celtic 8 times would open the league up and hopefully bring back the big supports we know exist in places like Dundee and Aberdeen. The media complain it will be a one-horse race, well 2 points here. 1) Its a one horse race anyway to everyone outside the OF - always won by an ugly sister, and 2) History doesnt support this. When one of the old firm has been in the doldrums in the past, other teams have come to the fore and taken the title on occasion.

 

I feel sorry for the decent Rangers supporters but would still ask them one question. If the garden were rosy and you had been offered an unconditional place in the EPL, would you have taken it?

[mc-uptroo]

For all lennons guff about how he is going to win the champions league with celtic then we have this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic/9206239/Neil-Lennon-feels-referees-are-getting-personal-as-Celtic-suffer-Scottish-Cup-semi-final-heartache-to-Hearts.html

he still can't keep his big gob shut and has to stomp on to the pitch in his typical aggressive manner

 

WIR HAYIN A PAIRTY WHIN R#NGERS DEE

WIR DOIN DA HUDDLE WHIN R#NGERS DEE

WIR DOIN DA KONGA WHIN R#NGERS DEE

JEELY AN ICE CRAEM WHIN R#NGERS DEE

 

WAN CRAIG WHYTE DIR ONLY WAN CRAIG WHYTE WAN CRAIG WHYTE!

 

NAE H#NS IN SCOTLAND O DEEL B NAE H#NS IN SCOTLAND NAAE H#NS IN SCOTLAND!

 

HA HA, HA HA, HA HA HA HA HA HA!

[tirvaluk]

Look like Division 3 for the team formerly known as Rangers now.

[mossbanker tim]

Fed up explaining this in simplistic terms to Rangers fans.

 

Player negotiates with Celtic and Rangers. Celtic offer £30k pw with 40% tax deducted leaves £18k.

Rangers offer £30k, £20k in EBT, £10k taxable totals £25k.

 

Who does the player sign for????

 

Get the tainted titles off them cheats. Celtic should sue for loss of Champion league revenue as well - 54 and falling......

[ftlr]

Fed up explaining this in simplistic terms to Rangers fans.

 

Player negotiates with Celtic and Rangers. Celtic offer £30k pw with 40% tax deducted leaves £18k.

Rangers offer £30k, £20k in EBT, £10k taxable totals £25k.

 

Who does the player sign for????

 

Get the tainted titles off them cheats. Celtic should sue for loss of Champion league revenue as well - 54 and falling......

It's not just Celtic who have been cheated here, every team who have played in the SPL have managed to finish 3rd at some point,strike the cheated titles from the team liquidated this summer and every 3rd place team gets a 2nd place,Europa league,attract better players,etc,etc.

[mossbanker tim]

I cannot believe the lack of credit Sevco F.C. got for beating a team a league higher than them. Now they have got Falkirk and if you analyse things objectively then we should take interest in this new club and give them a fair crack of the whip.

 

Falkirk FC

Challenge cup winners: 1993, 1997, 2004 & 2012

 

Scottish first tier league winners: 1907–08 & 1909–10

 

Scottish Cup winners: 1913, 1957

 

Record attendance: 23,100 v Celtic

 

Sevco F.C. (Formally Rangers):

Honours: Nothing!!!!

Record attendance: 4,123 v Brechin City

[tirvaluk]

Record attendance has to be 0, they haven't played a home game yet.

[mossbanker tim]

Why did Sevco F.C. (Formally known as Rangers) not sign Robin Van Persie?

 

I refer to the club formally known as Rangers as Sevco F.C. as Rangers are DEAD, No more, liquidated....

 

You would ask yourself how Sevco FC could afford to buy Robin Van Persie from Arsenal and pay his wages for the next four years. The answer is simple, do what they (Oldco Rangers) have been doing for years, just don’t pay the selling club, and when it comes to wages, pay them through some dodgy tax avoiding scheme.

 

For proof of that you could ask a number of club chairmen, anyone from Rapid Vienna, St Etienne, Chelsea, Palermo, Manchester city, they even owe Arsenal for the services of one of their players on loan.

 

I think the SFA and SPL have given them more than enough chances to get their big house in order, it really is time now for some serious action, or can Charles Green act with impunity within Scottish Football.

 

Some of the comments from this guy in the last few weeks have been very inflammatory, the comments are obviously meant to get his clubs supporters on his side, and to entice them to buy season tickets for Division 3..

 

Green is, as you say, continuing this line of comments purely for the purpose of playing up to the Sevco hoardes, getting them on his side and purchasing their new season tickets. Expecting it doesn't excuse it however. The sad fact is the longer Green, McCoist and the fans claim bias and bigotry against their old club (can you believe this!) and new club, the more the mainstream media will continue to pander to their wishes and refer to both clubs as one and the same.

 

You are somewhat correct, the original Rangers received a punishment of precisely 10 points deducted. But this was only an application of the rules because they filed for administration, same as happened to Gretna in 2008, rather than a punishment specific to them.

 

Despite arguing the following points, the Rangers & Sevco fans are wrong:

 

1 - Rangers were not banned from Europe - they just did not submit audited accounts in time to be granted a licence.

 

2 - Rangers were not relegated from the SPL. They haven't been liquidated as a company/club yet but have had to transfer their share in the SPL to Dundee.

 

3 - They did receive a punishment specific to them of £160,000 fine and a 12-month registration embargo. Rangers contested these in the civil courts (which itself is against UEFA rules) before the punishment being upheld by the appellate tribunal. The club ceased to exist before the punishments could be enforced. The new club accepted these same punishments as a sanction for entry to the SFA/SFL as a new club. NOT because they are the same club.

 

Sevco fans argue wrongly:

 

1 - They were relegated from the SPL. Wrong - you are a new club, you did not exist in the SPL to be relegated from it. This argument stands strong for the assertion that they were relegated to SFL3 - they were not a club in the existing structure and so couldn't have been "relegated" anywhere, rather they were granted membership and started from the bottom as a new club should.

 

2 - They have been banned from Europe for 3 years. Wrong - you are a new club, you have not the required three years audited accounts to gain a European licence.

 

McCoist, Green and co. know these things as much as everyone else.

 

Punishment was not truly given to Rangers for their misdeeds. In the case of the new club, the defensive mentality is understandable somewhat, but still ultimately wrong. The SFA are not their enemy, quite the opposite, they virtually cut through the rules to try and get the new club in Rangers' stead. Ignoring the pre-existing rules for clubs seeking entry to the professional leagues to have at least three years’ worth of accounts to prove their viability – something the new club does not have.

[/b][/u]

[mossbanker tim]

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/index.html

 

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50050/profile/index.html

 

It was pointed out on a radio phone in that UEFA and FIFA are watching with interest the goings on with regards to Rangers and Sevco F.C. - FIFA consider liqidation to be the death of a club. If you check out the above links, the UEFA website considers the history of Rangers to have been concluded on May 13 2012. The governing bodies consider that the next title won at "Ibrox" will be their first under the name of "The Rangers Football Club, Sevco of Conco" - it depends on how you regard this new entity.

 

As I have stated on here before rather than the SFA being against Rangers, sorry Sevco F.C. - the truth is they are bending over backwards to accomodate them. As a new club they should not have been considered for entry to the Scottish Football League as they have not been a club for 3 years. Poor old Spartans overlooked again as the SFA do not apply their own rules.

[mossbanker tim]

I see Lance Armstrong may be stripped of seven tour wins and banned for life from cycling. If its good enough to take these very prestigious titles from a global sports icon, in fact one of the all time greats (pending drug allegations outcome)

 

The Daily Record claims that it will all be OK because Bradley Wiggins is going to buy Lance Armstrong and his history and become the most decorated cyclist ever.

 

 

A spokesman for Sevco F.C. stated "This is a disgrace, hasn't he been punished enough?"

[mossbanker tim]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotland?CMP=twt_gu

 

On this web blog a few Rangers fans stated that Phil Mac Giolla Bhain is a bit of a crank. Well I hope this puts this lies spun from bitter Rangers fans to bed.

 

He is a journalist, author, blogger and writer. He is an active member of the National Union of Journalists and the Irish representative on the NUJ‘s New Media Industrial Council. He also is the editor of the NUJ’s house magazine the Irish Journalist. An established print journalist for many years Phil’s online writing has gained him a vast following as well as recognition by the national press and in the Tartan Blog Awards in 2010 and 2011. Phil lives and works in Ireland.

 

Over the last few years, he has spent much, but by no means all, of his time writing about the decline and fall of Rangers. He has broken some of the stories to the public gaze, even where afterwards more Establishment journalists claimed to have known all along, but could not print because “the lawyers would not let themâ€.

 

He, along with the Orwell Prize wining blogger, RTC of RangersTaxCase.com, have helped to bring the story out of the dark and into the light. Along the way there have been various other writers, bloggers and rumourmongers who have got things spot on, and many more who have been hopelessly wrong. Now, with the trail having been blazed by RTC and Phil, Mark Daly of the BBC and Alex Thomson of Channel 4, amongst others, have put the issues on national television.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotlandsaid this:-

 

“The story stretches back four years. Mac Giolla Bhain was the first journalist, and, for much of the time, the only journalist, to chart the financial dramas that led to the demise of Rangers football club.

 

The fact that he worked outside the Scottish media establishment to tell the twists and turns of the tale in a blog is hugely relevant. Indeed, a crucial part of the story involves the initial failure of Scotland’s journalists to investigate the internal shenanigans at Rangers.

 

For his trouble, Mac Giolla Bhain suffered from persistent verbal threats from people calling themselves Rangers fans.â€

 

There is no doubt now that the story is huge and has, since the descent into administration in February, has been covered in detail, in Scotland, England and around the world too.

[mossbanker tim]

This guy Charles Green seems to think that his consortium (Sevco F.C.) “bought†titles won by Rangers Football Club (1872).

This, I have to admit, is a new one on me.

If Charlie is correct then perhaps, Mr Novak Djokovic, who is a very wealthy tennis player, will put in a bid in for Andy Murray’s US open title.

After all, it would appear that sporting titles can be bought.

 

Roger Mitchell in the Herald nails it today with unarguable logic, but he also tries to acquaint Mr Green with the long standing rapprochement between the sports hacks and anyone in a position of power at Ibrox.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/does-green-actually-buy-this-stuff-lets-take-a-look.18857922

 

in this socially valuable work by people in charge at Edmiston Drive.

The bottom line is if Charlie doesn’t bring attention to the fact that Sevco are a new club with no titles then the hacks won’t mention it either and everyone can pretend that Rangers didn’t die.

 

Rangers (1872-2012) had 140 years of history and a lot of it wasn’t that happy. The club operated discriminatory employment practices that effectively wrote permission slips for racists and bigots. Thus authorised the Ibrox klan went on the rampage with depressing regularity.

Perhaps if Sevco admitted that they had no history at all then we would all be happier.

[Biglad]

Yawn!

[upnorth76]

i just wish celtic, rangers & all other fans would let it just die and move on - what has happened has happened, no point in looking back - but its clear to see some fans still can't let it go.... nor the SPL/SFA

 

as to celtic suing for lost revenue on champions league - celtic didn't lose out because of EBTs, the simply lost qualification to the Champions League as they did not win the league that specific year or won at the qualifying rounds.. Celtic are a big club & could of easily spent good money to bring good players in, which they did.. So the matter of the fact is celtic just didn't have the players to win the games to qualify for champions league... EBT is a tax case not a footballing case..

 

Its the same for Aberdeen - Stuart Milne has millions, probably more in his bank than the celtic owner(s) but he doesn't spend his money not because he doesn't want to - Aberdeen simply don't have the fan base anymore to justify him spending millions of pounds on players to come and play in a half empty stadium... last game attendance 9,288 (so much for the Save Our Saturday) campaign....